Shunting

[werk]

why wouldn't he be yanked through the force cage as well?

The spell descripion of forcecage?

"...but the force walls or bars extend into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel."

So to be more clear, a shunting ethereal creature is not completely blocked by solid materials, like stone, but they are still blocked by force. IMO.


As for shunting upwards, yes, if that is the closest open space.

 

[nute]

The spell descripion of forcecage?

"...but the force walls or bars extend into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel."

But he's not ethereal - he's solid, because of Morty's Disjunction. Thus the forcecage is identical to stone for the intents and purposes of blocking a solid creature.

In the real world, matter cannot occupy the same physical space as other matter. This obviously doesn't apply to the D&D world. It HURTS, but it's possible.

 

[bestone]

heh, but stone would block material travel? would it not?

You cant normally walk through walls, and ehtreal creatures cant normally travel through forcecages

But when your inside something you shouldnt be or ar blocked by something in your way that doesnt allow travel , you get pushed through it into the nearest open space, and take damage.

 

[werk]

But he's not ethereal - he's solid, because of Morty's Disjunction.

I don't believe this is correct.

He was ethereal, under the effects of a spell, that spell was dispelled. In resolving what happens when the spell is dispelled, we refer to the spell's description (otherwise he'd just be stuck in the stone). The description says, "If you end the spell and become material while inside a material object (such as a solid wall), you are shunted off to the nearest open space..." I'd say the spell isn't dispelled until he's in the open space, otherwise we could completely disregard the text from the description as that spell is not in effect.

Also note that force effects are not material objects.

 

[bestone]

but shunting still forces you through things thay may not be legal to do so, and penalizes you in damage for doing it

you cant normally move through stone or force

 

[nute]

Hmm, possibly true. But for the specific use of a 10'x10' solid forcecage, it's moot because instead of passing 5' through it, you can pass 5' diagonally past it and move the same distance by the RAW.

If I have squares:
12
34

Moving from 2-3 is the same distance as 2-4, and is therefore just as close.

If the plane between 2-4 is occupied by a solid wall of force, then it would take 10' of movement to get from 2 to 4 (2-3, 3-4). Thus, 2-3 is the shorter route.

If the plane between 2-4 is blocked by those force bars? I'd say the scout squeezes through and takes no extra damage.

IIRC, objects that only take up a point (the intersection of four squares, like the center of a fireball) or a plane (the side of a square, like the wall of a forcecage) are not considered to be occupying the square. They may block movement into the square, but not occupation of the square.

 

[Imre]

My interpretation of shunting was this:

You have some spell or effect which allows you to travel through some material not normally allowed. The spell ends while you are in that material. You partially manifest, take d6 damage, and are moved 5' toward the nearest open space via the same mode of travel initially given you by the spell or effect. This process repeats until you reach the open space and you manifest completely.

The problem I have here is that the mode of travel given by Ethereal Jaunt is blocked by another effect.

Some other notes:
1) 'Shunting upwards' is not a viable solution since Forcecage creates a cube of force.

2) Disjunction destroys Walls of Force, but not Forcecages, at least the way the spell descriptions read in the PHB.

3) Whether or not the Forcecage could, in fact, be put in place is touchy. It's a good point. It's a problem I started when I initially allowed the person scouting to be occupying a square of dirt and 'poking his head out into the next square to look'. A more subtle point, and you hinted at this, is whether someone using True Seeing to 'focus his vision' on the Ethereal plane could create such a Forcecage. But this is all material for another thread, I suppose.

 

[Jarrod]

He shunts to the nearest open area, and takes damage.

The shunting from Etherealness (or Dimension Door, or...) is a safety effect built into the spell. Same thing as a dispelled Fly going into a Feather Fall. Since it doesn't say that a Forcecage blocks the shunt, it doesn't.

Simplest is best, sometimes. Well, often. Okay, almost always.

 

[Imre]

Yeah, as I was writing it up, I started to grumble at myself about overthinking it.

That's what I get for trying to fill in all the blanks left in this particular game mechanic.