Siege problems with Power Attack

[Jhyrryl]

Whatever happened to the part where a magical weapon can't be broken by something that has a lower enhancement bonus? Do you have +1 walls?

That's a 3.0 rule, and it was a poor one at that. It effectively meant that plussed items had DR infinite/plus.

In 3.5, each plus of an item adds 2 to its hardness (see page PH 165). And that's it -- your +3 weapon is no longer immune to being sundered by a measly little, normal longsword (Edit: although the longsword wielder is probably going to need some significant Power Attack to do it).

But anyway, the real reason I've never implemented such a rule is that if I were to be consistent, it would apply to weapon vs armor contact as well. I might put something like that in an online RPG, but it would bog down a table-top game way too much.

And yes, absolutely I have +1 walls. <g> From the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook (which is very integral to one of the campaigns I run), magically treated walls give +20 to the break DC of a wall, and doubles its hardness and hit points for a cost of 12,000 gp per stonghold space, or for 800 square feet of freestanding wall.

 

[Xeovke]

Now that I think of it, isn't the mattock of the titans slightly off as described. It is said it takes 1 hour to clear out a 10-foot cube of stone ( 90*12*10=10800 HP with hardness 8). Now wielding it as the gargantuan +3 adamantine warhammer it is, it does 4d6+3+12 (strength 10+8+8 for a Huge wielder, *1.5 in 2 hands) = 29 on avg per hit (ignoring hardness as it is in adamantine). Even if our huge fellow has only one attack per round, it takes 10800/27.55 = 392 rounds = 39.2 minutes to do the job.
More to the discussion, it indeed seems, as mentionned, that hardness should increase with thickness, it would prevent many silly strategies.
Cheers,
Xeovke

 

[James McMurray]

Now that I think of it, isn't the mattock of the titans slightly off as described. It is said it takes 1 hour to clear out a 10-foot cube of stone ( 90*12*10=10800 HP with hardness 8). Now wielding it as the gargantuan +3 adamantine warhammer it is, it does 4d6+3+12 (strength 10+8+8 for a Huge wielder, *1.5 in 2 hands) = 29 on avg per hit (ignoring hardness as it is in adamantine). Even if our huge fellow has only one attack per round, it takes 10800/27.55 = 392 rounds = 39.2 minutes to do the job.
More to the discussion, it indeed seems, as mentionned, that hardness should increase with thickness, it would prevent many silly strategies.
Cheers,
Xeovke

That's assuming that you can stand there and swing the thing for 39.2 minutes straight. Perhaps the maul gives you the endurance to dig through it in an hour by making it so you don't have to take as many breaks.

 

[Xeovke]

That's assuming that you can stand there and swing the thing for 39.2 minutes straight. Perhaps the maul gives you the endurance to dig through it in an hour by making it so you don't have to take as many breaks.

That must be it.
But could you point out the page with the rules for fatigue during a long combat? (in the 3.0 books if possible)
Cheers,
Xeovke

 

[James McMurray]

That must be it.
But could you point out the page with the rules for fatigue during a long combat? (in the 3.0 books if possible)
Cheers,
Xeovke

As far as I know there aren't any, its just a matter of the DM deciding when enough is enough.

 

[S'mon]

As far as I know there aren't any, its just a matter of the DM deciding when enough is enough.

Adapting the 1e DSG rules I suggest a Fatigue check (say CON DC 15) after 50 combat rounds (5 minutes) of fighting unless the charater rests 5 minutes for every 5 minutes of battle. Next check after 40, then 30, 20, then every 10 rounds. Fail & you're Fatigued. Fatigued check every 10 rounds or be Exhausted.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That's a 3.0 rule, and it was a poor one at that. It effectively meant that plussed items had DR infinite/plus.

In 3.5, each plus of an item adds 2 to its hardness (see page PH 165). And that's it -- your +3 weapon is no longer immune to being sundered by a measly little, normal longsword (Edit: although the longsword wielder is probably going to need some significant Power Attack to do it).

I'm afraid the rule still exists in 3.5...

From the magic items section, under Weapons:

Hardness and Hit Points: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck.

-Hyp.

 

[Jhyrryl]

I'm afraid the rule still exists in 3.5...

From the magic items section, under Weapons:

Hardness and Hit Points: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck.

-Hyp.

Blech!

That section also goes on to say that each +1 of enhancement adds 1 to the hardness and hit points, in direct contradiction to what the PH says about each plus adding 2 to the hardness, and +10 hp (which I overlooked in my previous response).

One or the other is definitely wrong, and since an obviously active change in the PH couldn't have been a typo, and the 3.5 DMG paragraph is lifted from the 3.0 PH, I'm going to say that the DMG is the one that's wrong. (Edit: oops, guess that paragraph was in the old DMG as well, so it's something that got changed one place and not another. It's still wrong though.)

But I'll send it off as errata bait to make sure it gets looked at.

 

[Darklone]

I'm afraid the rule still exists in 3.5...

From the magic items section, under Weapons:

Hardness and Hit Points: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck.

-Hyp.

Does this apply to the magic wallpaper we discussed lately ?

Barbarian PC: "Hah, me gonna smash this puny wall."
DM: "You don't scratch it. Not even the nice pink wallpaper with green flowers."

 

[frankthedm]

I think I gonna houserule power attack as not feasible against objects.

IMG i decided power attack just doesn't work with the 'lining up an attack option' used for object auto hit and CDG.

Also hitting your weapon REALLY hard against something in my game is a great way to break it or at least get it wedged in real good.

The new +2 hardness, +10 hp per plus without invulnerabillity to lesser weapons feels pretty good to me. makes thing tough to bust but not impossible.