Sigil in DMG2 - Any thoughts?

[catsclaw227]

While I am still waiting for my DMG2, I just ordered it via Amazon, I was reading some of the DMG2 threads and noticed that no one has really commented on the Sigil chapter or section.

To those who have it, how is the write-up? Is it true to Planescape? How many pages? How good is the fluff?

(I also wonder what Shemeska thinks about it, since he's got a strong Planescape background (well-read, with good PS ideas) and his thoughts about 4e are well documented. Did they do him proud or did they rip his heart out. )

 

[Shemeska]

Michelle Carter (who edited the book) did a really good job making sure that the 4e version of Sigil stayed true to the original (as much as it could given the radically different 4e cosmology, no Blood War, etc). As I understand it, a lot of the NPCs included which were iconic in 2e but a tad more obscure and didn't appear in 3e sources, appeared there at her urging, which makes her awesome.

It's 4e Sigil, so it's not the same city of doors, and as a part of the 4e cosmology, it lacks a lot of stuff that I like, but it's pretty damn faithful to the city itself, and Michelle deserves a lot of credit for that.

 

[malraux]

Michelle Carter (who edited the book) did a really good job making sure that the 4e version of Sigil stayed true to the original (as much as it could given the radically different 4e cosmology, no Blood War, etc). As I understand it, a lot of the NPCs included which were iconic in 2e but a tad more obscure and didn't appear in 3e sources, appeared there at her urging, which makes her awesome.

It's 4e Sigil, so it's not the same city of doors, and as a part of the 4e cosmology, it lacks a lot of stuff that I like, but it's pretty damn faithful to the city itself, and Michelle deserves a lot of credit for that.

Nitpick: The blood war still exists in 4e.

 

[catsclaw227]

Michelle Carter (who edited the book) did a really good job making sure that the 4e version of Sigil stayed true to the original (as much as it could given the radically different 4e cosmology, no Blood War, etc). As I understand it, a lot of the NPCs included which were iconic in 2e but a tad more obscure and didn't appear in 3e sources, appeared there at her urging, which makes her awesome.

It's 4e Sigil, so it's not the same city of doors, and as a part of the 4e cosmology, it lacks a lot of stuff that I like, but it's pretty damn faithful to the city itself, and Michelle deserves a lot of credit for that.

Have you had a chance to look at it yourself yet?

When I get mine, I'll give my opinion, but it will be the review from the eyes of a person not very familiar with the Planescape (2e, 3e? was there any 3e planescape?)

 

[Sigdel]

Planescape never held my interest until I read the chapter in the DMG. Now I am working on how to fit it in to my hombrew 4e game. It's a great read that’s written about Sigil but in a nonfanboyish way. I've known too many fans of certain settings that can’t tell you about their favorite without gushing.

 

[Crothian]

The section needs some art to really make it shine, but it was pretty well done.

 

[Inyssius]

Nitpick: The blood war still exists in 4e.

Mm-hm. It's no longer the central driving conflict of the entire setting, but it does exist.

 

[doctorhook]

Michelle Carter (who edited the book) did a really good job making sure that the 4e version of Sigil stayed true to the original (as much as it could given the radically different 4e cosmology, no Blood War, etc).

This about the eighth time in the past year that you've claimed 4E has no Blood War, at least the second time I personally have corrected you on it, and I'm the third person to point it out to you in this thread alone:

The Blood War exists in 4E! It centers around Asmodeus' attempts to invade The Abyss and claim the shard of evil at its heart for himself.​

It's still Demons vs Devils, it's still perpetual and massive in scope, and it's still exactly as important to your campaign as you want it to be.

 

[Shemeska]

This about the eighth time in the past year that you've claimed 4E has no Blood War, at least the second time I personally have corrected you on it, and I'm the third person to point it out to you in this thread alone:

It has a sidebar in the 4e MotP that boils down to 'demons and devils don't like each other, but there's absolutely nothing going on at the moment and the planes-spanning ideological genocide that was a central motivating conflict on the planes - that's all in the past and doesn't impact anything now and we won't devote any further space to it.' I think the phrase appears maybe 8 times in the entire text, including headers and two item names.

When I said "no Blood War", either I should have been more clear in the term, or you're a bit too easily offended. No Blood War isn't the same as "it doesn't exist", just the same as saying "no orcus" during early 2e wasn't the same as saying "orcus no longer exists in the game at all".

The Blood War gets mentioned as an inactive non-issue within the default cosmology.

 

[LoneWolf23]

I think it's more a matter of letting DMs decide for themselves if they want to use the Blood War or not, instead of just making it an inescapable fact of existence.

If you want to feature the Blood War in all its cosmic genocidal glory, then go right ahead, nothing's stopping you. But if you don't want to deal with it, just say the Devils and Demons are in a state of detente and move on.

Which, honestly, is something I prefer.