Silence and Sonics

[Darklone]

Mo sounds like Mostin.

Alienist with a penchant for sub-sonic evocs. hehehehe.

Ah well, there's a reason why the 3.5 Energy substitution feat does not allow sonics.

 

[Olive]

Mo sounds like Mostin.

Alienist with a penchant for sub-sonic evocs. hehehehe.

Couldn't possibly think why...

Ah well, there's a reason why the 3.5 Energy substitution feat does not allow sonics.

Maybe, but I don't think it's as bad as it at first seems, and so I'll keep letting it have sonics.

But which 3.5 Energy Sub feat are you referring to? The Breath Weapon Sub spell in Draconomicon? I don't think I've seen a 3.5 energy sub feat.

 

[The Souljourner]

Sonic is the one damage type to which almost nothing has resistance or immunity. Even a second level spell that can completely protect your entire party from it doesn't really balance out the cheese factor of energy substitution: sonic. So... I think it's just fine as is.

-The Souljourner

 

[Silveras]

But which 3.5 Energy Sub feat are you referring to? The Breath Weapon Sub spell in Draconomicon? I don't think I've seen a 3.5 energy sub feat.

'Energy Substitution' is now called 'Energy Affinity' in the Miniatures Handbook. It specifically only allows Acid, Cold, Electricity, and Fire.

I think the reasoning is:
There are very few creatures with Sonic resistance
(IIRC, Sonic also ignores hardness of objects)
The feat adds +0 to the spell slot required
The feat can be used with any energy spell
The feat is not limited to X uses per day

Therefore, Sonic damage would be the obvious choice. Obvious = broken. Therefore, it must be disallowed.

 

[Olive]

'Energy Substitution' is now called 'Energy Affinity' in the Miniatures Handbook. It specifically only allows Acid, Cold, Electricity, and Fire.

gotcha, I don't have that book.

I think the reasoning is:
There are very few creatures with Sonic resistance
(IIRC, Sonic also ignores hardness of objects)

Well, that kinda depends on the campaign, but sure. Formians have resistance 10, and I think slaads have some protection (but they're not in the SRD so can't check right now), so you could create a campaign very easily where it wasn't obvious (perhaps a campaign set somewhere where most creatures were vunerable to cold or soemthign as well), but for most people's campaigns you're probably right.

The feat adds +0 to the spell slot required
The feat can be used with any energy spell
The feat is not limited to X uses per day

I think that next campaign I'll proably allow sonic substitution but make it a different feat that gives +1 lvl.

Therefore, Sonic damage would be the obvious choice. Obvious = broken. Therefore, it must be disallowed.

It's a funny one. I sort of agree, and sort of don't. If you plan for the fact that any wizard with any interest in fighting outsiders will have the feat, then your outsiders can begin to prepare, being smart and immortal as they are. Of course you don't want to plan every creature to negate the feat choice of your players, but you don't want your monsters to be idiots either do you.

So in a campaign based on this assumption (ie. a campaign with the feat in question), devils will go "hmmm... I'm immune to fire, and resistant to cold and acid. Perhaps my first two purchases will be armour of sonic resistance, and a ring of electricity resistance, giving me 10/everything or better!'. And given that the devil is Int 10 or better, that's what he'll do!

And it's not that obvious. If you're not fighting a lot of outsiders your wizard is proably better of with plenty of other feat choices. And givent hat everything is immune to SOMETHING, but also not immune to soemthing else, a clever wizard can usually adapt accordingly, and a sorceror even more so. sonic means that you'll make all your evocations sonics, but without the feat you'll choose a electrical one and a fire one and retreat and restock if you run up against something tough. This way you just skip the run and restock part.

There is another point: not everything that's obvious should be disallowed. Divine might is a no brainer for paladins, but that's because it makes them much more viable and interesting in a low undead campaign like mine. But I'm pretty sure it's not a broken feat. Indeed, of all the min-max things I've let mo do, being a grey elf was probably the worst, but it's not game breaking and Mo is probably having more fun due to playing his character cos he's a gearhead.

Over all, the problem isn't with a minorly over powered, but not gamebreaking feat. It's with the place of sonic energy in the game. Maybe next edition we should have sound elementals from the plane of elemental sound, and there should be more sonic spells ad wider sread immunity and vunerablity to the energy type, and then it would eb more balanced. Or they should drop the type altogether as an energy subtype, and have things like horn of blasting and shout as special untyped one offs and it wouldn't be an issue.

back to work now.