Silence Spell Saving Throw
- Thread starter Zook
- Start date
Chorn said:
::sighs:: no, and what are you talking about? mass cloud mind indeed. You are simply making things up without basis.
Here you go:
SRD:
Illusion
Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.
Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.) Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the image produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like.
Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly.
A figment’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.
Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject’s sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.
Pattern: Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells.
Phantasm: A phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive. This impression is totally in the minds of the subjects. It is a personalized mental impression. (It’s all in their heads and not a fake picture or something that they actually see.) Third parties viewing or studying the scene don’t notice the phantasm. All phantasms are mind-affecting spells.
Shadow: A shadow spell creates something that is partially real from extradimensional energy. Such illusions can have real effects. Damage dealt by a shadow illusion is real.
Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief ): Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.
A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.
A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.
Illusions change perceptions, that is what it says, right there in the rules text. If you need more rule text to state this yet again feel free to check around for it. This 'should' be sufficient.
Chorn said:
No, it's not.
Also, no, my reasoning does not negate photons, thanees might if he wants to push it that far.
My interpretation of invis is that it simply masks the photons in illusion, hence why there are things that can see through it. Silence actually stops sound. It doesnt just make you 'think' that the sound stops, or fools you into not hearing the sound, it is actually stopped.
Glamors do not effect real change. Silence stops sound for real. So silence is not a glamor. Easy enough.
Thanee
First Post
Just saying, that Invisibility has an absolutely real effect, too.
Here's one totally constructed example, just to illustrate this.
Let's assume a dark room with a small hole in the ceiling. Light shines through this hole. Now someone hold his hand on the hole, so the light stops to shine into the room. Now that someone turns invisible...
Another person down inside the room doesn't even interact with that someone, still the spell had a quite real effect on him.
Bye
Thanee
Here's one totally constructed example, just to illustrate this.
Let's assume a dark room with a small hole in the ceiling. Light shines through this hole. Now someone hold his hand on the hole, so the light stops to shine into the room. Now that someone turns invisible...
Another person down inside the room doesn't even interact with that someone, still the spell had a quite real effect on him.
Bye
Thanee
oh? and what effect would that be?
really, he isnt being directly effected, even in your example.
Still though, it isnt defined in the game what happens when something invisible blocks a whole passage of some size. Different dm's do it differently, precisely because it isnt defined.
Still, I simply said that it did something other than what you said because what you said didnt make sense with the rest of the game. Simple enough.
really, he isnt being directly effected, even in your example.
Still though, it isnt defined in the game what happens when something invisible blocks a whole passage of some size. Different dm's do it differently, precisely because it isnt defined.
Still, I simply said that it did something other than what you said because what you said didnt make sense with the rest of the game. Simple enough.
The answer really is quite obvious. The invisible person is in a superposition of states and is effectively visible and invisible at the same time, in accordance with the Heisenberg interpretation of the uncertainty principle. Now someone kill that cat already.
Here's another experiment. Have two slits in the wall and have two invisible people put their hands in front of them. If only one invisible person does this, you get a simple bell curve of light intensity behind the slit. However, if both invisible people do this, you get a complex interference pattern, demonstrating the dual wave-particle nature of invisibility.
Hong "I SAID, someone kill that cat already" Ooi
Here's another experiment. Have two slits in the wall and have two invisible people put their hands in front of them. If only one invisible person does this, you get a simple bell curve of light intensity behind the slit. However, if both invisible people do this, you get a complex interference pattern, demonstrating the dual wave-particle nature of invisibility.
Hong "I SAID, someone kill that cat already" Ooi
Last edited:
Earlier I said you were getting close to the incorrect claim that Invisibility is mind affecting. You replied that it was the rules that were the ones getting close to such a claim. Hence, I asked for a SPECIFIC cite for your claim. Quoting the section wholesale and expecting me to know what you mean is not helpful.Scion said:
Cloud Mind is a psionic power from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. It's the classic mind affecting psionic invisibility where the targets just ignore the person as if he wasn't there. There are people who think Invisibility works like this, but they are completely wrong. If it did work like this, it would be incredibly powerful because it would be a no save, unlimited range effect.
This is where you're getting hung up. You keep thinking that glamers don't affect the sensory data itself, but the person who recieves it. Glamers can change the properties of the data. They are real enough that you can interact with them in a certain sense.
Thanee
First Post
Scion said:
Because you said, that Glamers cannot have a real effect?
Also, can you prove that it is true that the light goes through?
Well, invisible obviously means, that it is not visible, so it obviously does not block vision.
Bye
Thanee
Thanee
First Post
Ah, BTW, I think it can easily be disallowed to cast Silence effectively on a Tanglefoot bag, since you have to target the "goo", which is useless, once the bag is opened, since it becomes tough and resilient upon exposure to air.
So, you would have to target the container, which lies on the square, where you threw it then, making it less effective (still nasty combined with the half move).
The big question remains, how they manage to keep the "goo" from reacting with the air before the bag is opened...
Bye
Thanee
So, you would have to target the container, which lies on the square, where you threw it then, making it less effective (still nasty combined with the half move).
The big question remains, how they manage to keep the "goo" from reacting with the air before the bag is opened...
Bye
Thanee
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