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Silvery Barbs, how would you fix it? Does it need fixing?
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<blockquote data-quote="UnknownDyson" data-source="post: 8494827" data-attributes="member: 6801369"><p>On a reaction that requires only a verbal component, you can force disadvantage onto an enemy and grant an ally advantage. This first-level spell allows you to hinder an enemy and aid an ally at the same time for a very low cost. And it isn't limited to an attack you can do this for an ability check, or a saving throw. There are a lot of people that don't understand how to play this game strategically, and I am not advocating for power gaming at the expense of roleplay. I am simply stating that some people do not understand what features are strong and what features are weak, I think you are one of those people. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Shield gives you plus 5 to armor class nothing more nothing less. If you are facing intelligent enemies or spell casters they can opt to make you roll a saving throw instead of attacking you or just attempt to grapple you bypassing shield. Shield is an amazing spell, don't get me wrong but it does not scale nearly as well as Silvery barbs. When you get to higher tiers of play, it's much more likely that you will be hit regardless of whether you shield or not because the attack modifiers are too high on the enemy, which is why health scales way better than armor class. You just don't know what you're talking about here. Advantage and disadvantage on any aspect of combat is so domineering, to call that niche shows a laughable misunderstanding of how bounded accuracy affects combat in 5e.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You're just going full tilt Dunning Kruger Effect now. Again, I just think you don't know what you are talking about. Silvery Barbs is better than some 4th level spells, and only gets stronger the higher the party goes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>A massive false equivalency, sleep is a great spell early on, but there is a lot of counterplay for it. The easiest one to spot is the health pool which, 5d8 ceases to be very effective when you leave the first tier of play. The second is that it does not work on creatures that are immune to charm or undead. It also does not work on elves. Sleep is a great early game spell but it tapers off a lot sooner than shield.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Another egregious false equivalency. Web allows the enemy to make a dexterity saving throw, so creatures that are proficient or have magic resistance are going to fare much better with this. Web can be removed with fire. There are also creatures who are immune to the restrained condition such as Shadows. There is meaningful counterplay to Web. Silvery Barbs doesn't even grant the target a saving throw, it just happens. The only way to thwart it is to counterspell. They are different kinds of spells but if I could only take one of them, I would go with Silvery Barbs because it is busted.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't believe you to be a bad actor, you just don't know what you're talking about. I don't hate Silvery Barbs, it is just objectively overpowered. If that doesn't bother you that's fine, your table is your table. But I would not hold it against any DM who banned it from play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="UnknownDyson, post: 8494827, member: 6801369"] On a reaction that requires only a verbal component, you can force disadvantage onto an enemy and grant an ally advantage. This first-level spell allows you to hinder an enemy and aid an ally at the same time for a very low cost. And it isn't limited to an attack you can do this for an ability check, or a saving throw. There are a lot of people that don't understand how to play this game strategically, and I am not advocating for power gaming at the expense of roleplay. I am simply stating that some people do not understand what features are strong and what features are weak, I think you are one of those people. Shield gives you plus 5 to armor class nothing more nothing less. If you are facing intelligent enemies or spell casters they can opt to make you roll a saving throw instead of attacking you or just attempt to grapple you bypassing shield. Shield is an amazing spell, don't get me wrong but it does not scale nearly as well as Silvery barbs. When you get to higher tiers of play, it's much more likely that you will be hit regardless of whether you shield or not because the attack modifiers are too high on the enemy, which is why health scales way better than armor class. You just don't know what you're talking about here. Advantage and disadvantage on any aspect of combat is so domineering, to call that niche shows a laughable misunderstanding of how bounded accuracy affects combat in 5e. You're just going full tilt Dunning Kruger Effect now. Again, I just think you don't know what you are talking about. Silvery Barbs is better than some 4th level spells, and only gets stronger the higher the party goes. A massive false equivalency, sleep is a great spell early on, but there is a lot of counterplay for it. The easiest one to spot is the health pool which, 5d8 ceases to be very effective when you leave the first tier of play. The second is that it does not work on creatures that are immune to charm or undead. It also does not work on elves. Sleep is a great early game spell but it tapers off a lot sooner than shield. Another egregious false equivalency. Web allows the enemy to make a dexterity saving throw, so creatures that are proficient or have magic resistance are going to fare much better with this. Web can be removed with fire. There are also creatures who are immune to the restrained condition such as Shadows. There is meaningful counterplay to Web. Silvery Barbs doesn't even grant the target a saving throw, it just happens. The only way to thwart it is to counterspell. They are different kinds of spells but if I could only take one of them, I would go with Silvery Barbs because it is busted. I don't believe you to be a bad actor, you just don't know what you're talking about. I don't hate Silvery Barbs, it is just objectively overpowered. If that doesn't bother you that's fine, your table is your table. But I would not hold it against any DM who banned it from play. [/QUOTE]
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