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D&D 5E Silvery Barbs, how would you fix it? Does it need fixing?

darjr

I crit!
Silvery Barbs is a spell from Strixhaven that is a reaction to cast, forces a reroll, and then grants advantage.

ThinkDM says he’d ban the spell.

I’d rather find a way to fix it.

But how?
 

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Bolares

Hero
About the Legendary resistances:

Silvery Barb grants you a reroll. But Legendary resistances doesn't care what you rolled, it makes you succed the ST. Let's say I rolled a 5 in my ST and used a legendary resistance. You make me reroll that 5, and I get a 1. Well, ok, I still succeed the ST because legendary resistances let's me ignore the roll, no matter what I get in it.

He assumes barb makes you roll another saving throw, but that's not the case, you just roll the dice in your previous ST again.
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
I saw that thread.... he waaaay overeacts in it (maybe for views. The spell is strong (about as strong as shield) but not broken. It does not do what peiople think it does to legendary resistances.
Agreed. It's a super-useful utility spell, but ultimately it's still just a probability shift.

I look at it this way; if shield hadn't been in the PHB but introduced in a later book, the cries to disallow or nerf it would be extreme. That doesn't mean shield as it currently exists is broken.
 

Bolares

Hero
Agreed. It's a super-useful utility spell, but ultimately it's still just a probability shift.

I look at it this way; if shield hadn't been in the PHB but introduced in a later book, the cries to disallow or nerf it would be extreme. That doesn't mean shield as it currently exists is broken.
Yeah, while barb has more uses, it lacks the garantee of success of shield. They are about the same.
 



ad_hoc

(he/they)
Why does it also grant advantage?!

It is already very strong bordering on overpowered with the first part.

If we are changing it lets start by removing the advantage.
 


darjr

I crit!
Why does it also grant advantage?!

It is already very strong bordering on overpowered with the first part.

If we are changing it lets start by removing the advantage.
But is that the “too strong bit” I think it’s still potentially too good even without that.
 

Bolares

Hero
But is that the “too strong bit” I think it’s still potentially too good even without that.
The thing is... you can't fix the too good portion (if you think it's too good). Otherwise it would just be worse bane...


thinking bout it... maybe give disavantage on the roll, but then you would have a very awkward timing for whent to trigger the effect...
 

billd91

Hobbit on Quest (he/him)
Is it too strong even without adding advantage to another check? It might be.
  • It's better than Lucky in some ways because it applies to things other than attack rolls and can be selected after the caster knows the check is successful whereas Lucky lacks that wording. But it's worse in that it takes a reaction while Lucky has no action cost. It won't be limited to 3/day as well.
  • It's kind of like disadvantage without actually being disadvantage so it won't, by itself, prevent someone from being the target of a sneak attack. But, again, it can be imposed after you know the result is a success whereas, with disadvantage, both rolls might be bad enough to be failures.
  • It is likely foil the hell out of a critical hit like disadvantage once you know the crit has been rolled. It's not 100% likely like a grave cleric's Sentinel at Death's Door ability (though it's close enough for gummint work), but it's available much sooner and probably more often since it's such a low-level spell and can be cast from higher level spells. Edit: Oh, and at twice the range...
Yuck. I'm kind of hating the way it's horning in on a lot of stuff. Whether more powerful or not, it's stepping the eff all over that grave cleric's crit negation. And, if nothing else, that probably makes it too good. What party-friendly wizard optimizer won't take it? It's too dominating a strategy right from 1st level.
 
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ad_hoc

(he/they)
What if we got rid of the Saving Throw aspect of it?

That is the part that is a problem. It's like duplicating a spell that works on Saving Throws with just a reaction and a 1st level spell.

The spell would be in line with Shield if it only affected attack rolls.
 


Horwath

Hero
OK, but why?
If I said that there is nothing to fix, I think that spell works good the way it is written.

But, since you asked: as many stated it's similar to shield but works little different.
It has range of only 60ft and you need to see the target. Shield works if attacked outside that range or from invisible/hidden opponent.

It costs a spell slot, so 4x per day max. It costs a reaction, so no shield(lasts entire round), no absorb elements(might regret when you get hit for 30+ fireball damage), no counter spell(for some really bad spell) for that round.

At low levels, every time you use it, you have one less slot for Sleep,
 

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