Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8495117" data-attributes="member: 7030563">They are not irrlevant.&nbsp; If you have played wizards you know how hard it is to position yourself for counterspell and you are handwaving this like it is nothing.&nbsp; It isn't nothing.Your argument here is like going to the casino with $360k to play roulette and if you lose the first $350k you are going to bet 00 with the last $10k and then you only lost $10k if it fails.But the save already suceeded&nbsp; by the time you choose to cast Barbs.&nbsp; That is what you are missing.You don't use it to force the use of a LR.&nbsp; You force a reroll and if the first suceeded then statistically the second is more likely to succeed than fail.&nbsp; Moreover this is an action, reaction and 1st level slot to attempt to strip an LR.Using the example of Bell I gave above.&nbsp; If I had silvery barbs and if I had survived long enough to do it without using my reactions for more effective spells; it would have taken me an average of 6 (5.7 mean) rounds using SB and Banishment to land banishment against Bel.&nbsp; This would have required on average 3-4th level slots, 3-5th level slots (since I would be out of 4th level), 3-1st level slots, 6 actions and 3 reactions plus getting myself within 60 feet every turn before it would stick.In terms of &quot;stripping Legendary reactions&quot; in that 6-turn fight silvery barbs would on average result in ONE (1.0796 mean) lost legendary action.&nbsp; So as a point of fact, on average using this strategy you would trade 3 additional reactions and 3 first level slots, and lost the hps associated with not preparing and using other first level spells and I would have done this to strip ONE legendary action from a legendary enemy in a 6-turn fight.That is with a 20 intelligence and targeting his weakest save!&nbsp; As noted in my earlier post without the other spells prepared and the reactions to use them, I might not have lasted long enough to see that through.That is using real numbers and a published CR25 opponent.&nbsp; If you don't like the opponent though we can choose another legendary opponent to illustrate my point.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8495117, member: 7030563"] They are not irrlevant. If you have played wizards you know how hard it is to position yourself for counterspell and you are handwaving this like it is nothing. It isn't nothing. Your argument here is like going to the casino with $360k to play roulette and if you lose the first $350k you are going to bet 00 with the last $10k and then you only lost $10k if it fails. But the save already suceeded by the time you choose to cast Barbs. That is what you are missing. You don't use it to force the use of a LR. You force a reroll and if the first suceeded then statistically the second is more likely to succeed than fail. Moreover this is an action, reaction and 1st level slot to attempt to strip an LR. Using the example of Bell I gave above. If I had silvery barbs and if I had survived long enough to do it without using my reactions for more effective spells; it would have taken me an average of 6 (5.7 mean) rounds using SB and Banishment to land banishment against Bel. This would have required on average 3-4th level slots, 3-5th level slots (since I would be out of 4th level), 3-1st level slots, 6 actions and 3 reactions plus getting myself within 60 feet every turn before it would stick. In terms of[I] "stripping Legendary reactions"[/I] in that 6-turn fight silvery barbs would on average result in [B]ONE[/B] (1.0796 mean) [B]lost legendary action[/B]. So as a point of fact, on average using this strategy you would trade 3 additional reactions and 3 first level slots, and lost the hps associated with not preparing and using other first level spells and I would have done this to strip ONE legendary action from a legendary enemy in a 6-turn fight. That is with a 20 intelligence and targeting his weakest save! As noted in my earlier post without the other spells prepared and the reactions to use them, I might not have lasted long enough to see that through. That is using real numbers and a published CR25 opponent. If you don't like the opponent though we can choose another legendary opponent to illustrate my point. [/QUOTE]

Verification