Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 8499638" data-attributes="member: 6802951">Whups. You're perfectly correct: I looked through the MM to get an idea of typical Wis Saves, decided to stick to 50:50 for simplicity's sake, and looks like I described it wrong anyway. DC would be 16 but we're assuming a +5 save bonus.By your same logic, in the first two cases of using the disadvantage spell, casting the spell was a waste.50% of the time, they would have failed their save anyway.Just casting Polymorph once has a 50% chance of the opponent failing the save.Overall odds of the target getting frogged is 50% overall.Disadvantage spell improves the chance of failing the save to 50% x 50% = 75%. A 25% improvement on not using the extra slot.Overall odds of the target getting frogged is 75% overall.Memorising and being willing to use Silvery Barbs improves the chance of failing the save to (50% chance of fail + 50% chance of turning success into failure. 50% + (50% x 50%) = 75%. A 25% improvement on not using the extra slot.Overall odds of the target getting frogged is 75% overall.Casting Polymorph again the next round improves the chance of failing the save to (50% chance of failing the first time. If succeeded, 50% chance of failing the second time.) 50% + (50 x 50%) = 75%. A 25% improvement on only casting the spell once.Overall odds of the target getting frogged is 75% overall.If you didn't need the disadvantage spell, it does nothing. Every time you cast the disadvantage spell but the target would have saved anyway, is a time that you are doing a bunch of needless and often counterproductive things, including preparing the spell and using the slot.Save proficiencies in the Monster Manual are rare and even with proficiency, the bonus is often less than the caster's primary ability score + proficiency. You don't need to cast Silvery Barbs for the purpose of getting through a save as often as you cast Polymorph,  Banishment, or Suggestion etc, but you will want to cast it more often than any one of those spells.Plus casting it for its other uses.As mentioned, mistakes happen. I'm not sure whether pit fiends are proficient in Charisma saves, but most high-end outsiders are described as having great presence and Charisma. If your DM mentioned that and you chose to throw a charisma-save spell anyway, there is always a risk. But sometimes it is what your character would do anyway, and sometimes it is worth the risk, even at a very low chance of success.No, it really doesn't. Over the last month and a bit, there have been a lot of spells cast. Generally for good reason, and generally with a decent chance of success. In most cases, Silvery Barbs has turned a failure for the group into a success, and it has been one of the most common spells cast in the high-level game, and only edged out in the low-level one because they're getting into a lot of fights.That is more usage than practically any other single spell I can think of.</blockquote>

Verification