D&D 5E Simple Question: Clerics and Extra Attack.

[James Gasik]

Swinging a mace or hammer around sounds thematically better than spamming Toll the Dead (to me, at least) when you have nothing better to do.

 

[Kurotowa]

I believe the Bladesinger’s extra attack is at least meant to be balanced out by the squishiness of the wizard class. Sure, you can attack twice with a sword, but you don’t really want to be in melee if the first place, if you can help it. But the cleric has better hit dice and better armor proficiencies, so giving them extra attack would leave little to differentiate them from just being full-casting paladins. That’s presumably the logic behind it, anyway. I’m sure you could build a cleric subclass with extra attack and it would probably be fine.

The way I look at it is that subclass features are priced on a sliding scale. If it directly synergizes with the base class features, it's expensive. If it's enabling a different playstyle starting from a lower baseline, it's cheap. So where does Extra Attack fall for Clerics?

Well, I'd say it's definitely a "direct synergy" candidate. A lot of Cleric subclasses are already melee characters, with martial weapon and heavy armor proficiency. That's why they already get Divine Strike. And is substituting Extra Attack for Divine Strike a value neutral exchange? Absolutely not.

It's the same way that Eldritch Blast beats Firebolt hands down. Multiple attacks is far superior to one single attack, especially for weapon attacks. Each extra attack is another chance to add all your additional damage riders like ability modifier and magic weapon traits. To say nothing of the multiplicative effect it will have with the buff spells that Cleric has no shortage of.

I would highly recommend against giving Clerics Extra Attack. There are very good balance reasons they have Divine Strike instead.

 

[bedir than]

I don't think Extra Attack is a good 8th level ability.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It would blur the line between Paladins and Clerics, which is already fairly thin in 5e. Both can theoretically wield the same weapons and armor, neither is better than the other with regards to raw weaponskill, both are divinely empowered, and some Clerics even get a smite ability (even if it lacks the raw power of burning spell slots for damage).

Paladins still have unique mechanics, but the difference in the narrative between a Cleric of Torm and a Paladin of Torm is fairly indistinct.

I'm really of two minds here- I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be kosher for the Cleric, if Bladesingers exist, but it does feed into discussions about the place of martial archetypes in the game if you can do everything a martial can do and cast 9th level spells.

The game is already heading in that direction, but whether it should be, is the real question.

Yeah I’d much rather just have clerics get a weapon cantrip or 3.

But I’d also prefer bladesingers not have extra attack, and lean harder into weapon spells.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Cleric cantrips that should exist:

Sacred Shield - if you hit, one ally within 5 ft of you or your target gains THP, scales by level.

Radiant Strike - if you hit, the target glows with divine radiance, and next ally that attacks the target gets a bonus to either attack of damage, and the glow ends. Extra target of the secondary effect on scaling levels, and extra damage to primary target.

 

[Horwath]

I believe the Bladesinger’s extra attack is at least meant to be balanced out by the squishiness of the wizard class. Sure, you can attack twice with a sword, but you don’t really want to be in melee if the first place, if you can help it. But the cleric has better hit dice and better armor proficiencies, so giving them extra attack would leave little to differentiate them from just being full-casting paladins. That’s presumably the logic behind it, anyway. I’m sure you could build a cleric subclass with extra attack and it would probably be fine.

nothing prevents Bladesinger to stand 150ft away with a longbow and making 2 attacks per round, or 120ft and replacing one attack with firebolt or chill touch.

 

[Shiroiken]

nothing prevents Bladesinger to stand 150ft away with a longbow and making 2 attacks per round, or 120ft and replacing one attack with firebolt or chill touch.

This is my current bladesinger, since we already have 3 melee characters. I wait to use Bladesong until I can get into a melee, but otherwise use my bow.

 

[TwoSix]

Yeah I’d much rather just have clerics get a weapon cantrip or 3.

But I’d also prefer bladesingers not have extra attack, and lean harder into weapon spells.

Honestly, I would have preferred if multiple attacks had been the fighter's special schtick, and other classes got damage riders instead, but that ship has sailed.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think they should have it and I am sad that the mechanics strongly encourage clerics to spam magic lasers rather than smash skulls with maces.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Honestly, I would have preferred if multiple attacks had been the fighter's special schtick, and other classes got damage riders instead, but that ship has sailed.

I think I prefer it mostly how it is, but more classes could def have a different damage methodology.