Simplified Daily Item Usage and Action Point Tracking

[keterys]

Are you all that concerned that you can use a daily power for a slot, then swap in something with a passive or encounter effect afterwards? (or swap out the normal item for the daily, use it, swap back out, if it's something that can be done outside of combat)

 

[CapnZapp]

See what you mean. Probably the easiest fix is to key the item to the slot, and not involve the daily.

(No, I don't want PCs to mess about with such things. It cheapens magic and distracts from gameplay. You're meant to have and use one item per slot. For each day, I guess - upgrading is of course still perfectly reasonable.)

So "You can only utilize one magic item per slot per day" seems to be the required rules language.

Where "utilize" includes enjoying enchantment bonuses, passive properties, or any kind of power (encounter, daily, etc).

Once you put a certain item into a certain slot (worn, wielded or otherwise used), the magic of another item (keyed to that slot) does not function for you until after an extended rest.



Now, where I can see this to be a bit too inflexible for some is in the case of weaponry. While carrying along two belts or headbands is clearly undesirable, what about two weapons?

Yes, you're not supposed to sneak in double Dailies just because you have two weapons, but having a back-up fire weapon against ice monsters isn't far fetched as I see it.

Should I reserve the more restrictive rule (outlined above) for items worn, and not items wielded?


Having a spare implement that does Radient damage for those graveyard bashes is functionally identical to having a second implement with great properties but no Daily to switch out another implement with a big Daily but sucky properties.

The design of 4E simply does not let me write short, good, easy rules text that weeds out the "playing the system" usage from the "in game perfectly resonable" usage. Unless you write intent into the rules, but that's not what I want.

So I guess that the choice is between allowing people to stack up separate weapons with big Dailies and weapons with good properties or to say no when players ask if they can switch to the Dragonslaying weapon...

Hmmm.... not good. Clearly the latter scenario is unacceptable, so will have to choose the lesser evil.

Unless one of you have a brilliant solution!

 

[KarinsDad]

Should I reserve the more restrictive rule (outlined above) for items worn, and not items wielded?

Possibly, but not necessarily.

I have a bit of an issue with the entire daily concept (item or power) anyway.

One solution might be:

1) Each PC refreshes two Action Points after each short rest (i.e. always max of two)
2) Each PC can use an Action Point for:
a) an extra action
b) a daily magic item use
c) recover an encounter power or a daily power (regardless of source)

I like players to have flexibility, but I understand the need for balance.

The rules listed here get rid of much of the bookkeeping and much of the restrictiveness, but at the same time do not open the power gates too much (they do give more power to PCs). It does allow two extra actions per encounter. It also allows a PC to re-use a daily item power, but that's ok (IMO).


I personally do not care if a player swaps out one Belt for another Belt between encounters. I especially do not care if a player uses one Sword instead of another mid-encounter or if he uses his special Wand Daily power twice in an encounter.

The game is meant to be fun. Bookkeeping is not fun. Hording resources for some players is not fun. I have found at our table that there can even be minor disagreements between players on resource management where some want to use them now to end fights quickly and others want to horde them for use in larger fights. Both play styles are fine, but both play styles are also penalized somewhat with the current rules. I prefer a rules set where neither play style is penalized if possible.

With the system above, the use them now crowd gets the advantage of heavy big gun use early in the encounter and the horde them crowd gets the advantage of heavy gun use whenever in the encounter that they feel it is necessary. The difficulty of the encounter does not matter, so it's win win. In the current rule set, the use them now crowd is typically penalized in later encounters (ran out of resources) and the horde them crowd is typically penalized in earlier encounters (self-prevented from using resources early on due to the chance of more difficult encounters later on). Meh.

 

[CapnZapp]

Are you all that concerned that you can use a daily power for a slot, then swap in something with a passive or encounter effect afterwards? (or swap out the normal item for the daily, use it, swap back out, if it's something that can be done outside of combat)

I think in the end, any attempt at stopping this gets bogged down in a quagmire of increasingly complex rules. At which time the point of the houserule disappears.

I think I'm going to keep the system as-is, but with a note saying "a magic item doesn't come on-line until after approximately five minutes".

A flaming weapon will still dish out fire damage as soon as it's wielded and used, but any passive properties, as well as any powers, can't be accessed until after a short rest.

This should be enough to avoid the cheese, while still keeping things simple.

Only question remains to formulate this in proper rules language that is clear and unambiguous.

I guess there is no difference between a flaming sword's fire and any other property, so the exception I mentioned above will have to go: a +3 flaming sword will effectively become a +3 magic sword until you've "attuned" to it (owned it for those five minutes).

As you can see, I'm not including the basic enchantment bonus in the "attunement bundle". Wonder if that's a mistake?

In the end, this rule must be kept simple. I guess either the item will have to remain completely non-magical before it's "attuned", or I'll drop the entire idea.