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<blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 4455177" data-attributes="member: 1106">Because that misses the point.&nbsp; The thing that makes these things special is that they are most definitely not supernatural!&nbsp; In a world of villains who cheat with spells, and callous gods who supernaturally toy with mortals, the hero, a mere mortal, with only his blade and mundane skills and conviction to back him up, triumphs.&nbsp; To suggest that there's something supernatural at work, that it's not the hero's mundane, honest, salt-of-the-earth courage, skill and luck that saved the day, is a travesty against heroism.&nbsp; If you think you understand heroics, how can you even write such things? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />There are martial heroes which are indeed supernatural in their basis (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon springs to mind) and whose level of skill transcends the mundane in the milieu of that world.&nbsp; But they're thankfully not the default, and IMO shouldn't be the default.&nbsp; The model for D&amp;D, described in my first two paragraphs, is the pulp model - where to describe the hero's struggles as being due to a supernatural force would be an absolute insult, even if you called his courage, spirit or skill supernatural.&nbsp; The point is that this is a normal guy prevailing against the supernatural, by mundane means, and only mundane means.&nbsp; (Give or take a magic sword, and some healing potions maybe....but otherwise, courage, wit, skill, resolve and luck all the way, bwana.&nbsp; Power to the people, he was just a farmboy with a dream, no-one special etc.)Wuxia, Greek myth, even Star Wars can get the supernatural involved in the martial, but I don't think that's the right direction for D&amp;D.&nbsp; It's already much too superpowered without making the martial skills supernatural.&nbsp; And it means that D&amp;D can no longer &quot;do&quot; a lot of it's key influences (Howard and Leiber for instance.&nbsp; And yes, I know the Mouser dabbled in the odd spell occasionally - not the point).The only outside explanation I'd accept is narrativium, or &quot;The Code&quot; which is followed by Cohen and his Silver Horde.&nbsp; Terry Pratchett is very keyed up on these unwritten rules of storytelling.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="rounser, post: 4455177, member: 1106"] Because that misses the point. The thing that makes these things special is that they are most definitely [i]not[/i] supernatural! In a world of villains who cheat with spells, and callous gods who supernaturally toy with mortals, the hero, a mere mortal, with only his blade and mundane skills and conviction to back him up, triumphs. To suggest that there's something supernatural at work, that it's not the hero's mundane, honest, salt-of-the-earth courage, skill and luck that saved the day, is a travesty against heroism. If you think you understand heroics, how can you even write such things? :) There are martial heroes which are indeed supernatural in their basis (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon springs to mind) and whose level of skill transcends the mundane in the milieu of that world. But they're thankfully not the default, and IMO shouldn't be the default. The model for D&D, described in my first two paragraphs, is the pulp model - where to describe the hero's struggles as being due to a supernatural force would be an absolute insult, even if you called his courage, spirit or skill supernatural. The point is that this is a normal guy [i]prevailing against[/i] the supernatural, by mundane means, and [i]only[/i] mundane means. (Give or take a magic sword, and some healing potions maybe....but otherwise, courage, wit, skill, resolve and luck all the way, bwana. Power to the people, he was just a farmboy with a dream, no-one special etc.) Wuxia, Greek myth, even Star Wars can get the supernatural involved in the martial, but I don't think that's the right direction for D&D. It's already much too superpowered without making the martial skills supernatural. And it means that D&D can no longer "do" a lot of it's key influences (Howard and Leiber for instance. And yes, I know the Mouser dabbled in the odd spell occasionally - not the point). The only outside explanation I'd accept is narrativium, or "The Code" which is followed by Cohen and his Silver Horde. Terry Pratchett is very keyed up on these unwritten rules of storytelling. [/QUOTE]

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