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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blackbrrd" data-source="post: 6177412" data-attributes="member: 63962">I like the idea of skill challenges, most of them aren't well written and run as written often end up being a bunch of simple skill checks with some role playing tacked on.I think the the biggest issues with skill challenges is that they are presented with too little meat on them and leave too little wiggle room for both the DM and the players.Take the skill challenge in the OP, it's presented as if you are already in the room, with the Lord Mumblename and basically states that the only charisma and int based skills matter when it comes to successes in the skill challenge. It mentions that physical evidence isn't enough, but it doesn't state why. Are the troops currently busy elsewhere? Is the Lord stingy?Basically, skill challenges as presented in 4e, and as in the OP (which is already well above average in my opinion) are just too short. Why does a single encounter get 2-3 pages worth of space, while a skill challenge typically only gets half a page?So, how can skill challenges be made better? Giving them more space is a good solution in my mind, but the what can the space be used for? Increasing the complexity comes to mind. If you look at what makes a combat encounter interesting it's usually how the different monsters interact. For instance two slow, though but weak hitting monsters that are sticky (by grabbing, slow auras or whatever), two fast and high damage strikers and a controller. You would want to take out the strikers first, but the three other monsters are hindering you in that task. Maybe you want to take out the controller first and then the strikers, or just nova through one defender and then go to town on the strikers.In other words, different avenues to success is probably a good idea. Let's expand on the OP's scenario, which I really like. Some ideas to expand on: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Why isn't the Lord ready to send out war parties? Is he afraid? Is he in debt and can't finance it? Is he being black mailed?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Getting an audience with the Lord should maybe be a sub-skill challenge. Maybe you would have to bribe his right-hand man or charm his daughter.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Finding a reliable witness to the orc's invasion and persuading (or bribing/paying) him to see the Lord could be another.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tracking down an orc war-party, bringing the head of the leader, or at least one of the orc scouts could also be a sub-skill challenge and combat combination.</li> </ul>There are multiple avenues I can see the PC's could use here. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They might discover that the Lord's wife is being held prisoner, tying up vital resources. Freeing her might be enough to make the Lord look into the problem without the PC's interfering more.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">One party might track down some orcs, blackmail the Lord's right hand to get and audience and dump an orc head at the Lord's feat at an awkward moment, forcing him to act</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some would maybe track down a reliable witness, track down some rare cloth, get to see the Lord's daughter and explain the situation to her, emotionally blackmailing the Lord into sending the war parties needed.</li> </ul>To sum it up: make skill challenges a more integrated part of the story, and don't make a big divide between role-playing, combat encounters and skill challenges. You can also run the skill challenges more like you run the 3.5 module Red Hand of Doom where the "preparations" the players make during the first three parts plays a direct role in how difficult the forth part of the adventure is - and plays out.Also, try to avoid situations where the PC's are standing in a room with a problem they need to solve there and then. Try to avoid thinking in combat/skill challenge encounters, but more on the complete adventure.... And yeah, I think skill challenges should be a part of 5e, but not in a straight 4e -> 5e conversion, they have to do a better job of helping DM's create and run skill challenges. Firstly by expanding on what they have written about them in 4e and secondly by creating adventures for 5e that take advantage of the new mechanics they come up with.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"></li> </ul></blockquote>

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