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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6182312" data-attributes="member: 48965">Again, this was accounted for by the fact that the wall was presented as more difficult to climb in the fiction (It being more brittle and less stable than a normal wall).  So what incongruence does allowing the wall to be climbed in the narrative when the roll failed address?  Also I still haven't seen you address the supposed "silliness"of the rogue falling, care to elaborate on that some?  Because it's true...So let me get this straight... each check reflects an event in the fiction... right?  Because earlier other posters were claiming that the rolls for skill challenges weren't tied to specific events on a micro level.  Just making sure we're on the same page here.  Now I never said whether the fiction was affected or not, but in a SC per the DMG you either attain your goal (through attaining x successes before y failures) or you suffer the failure consequences (because you suffered Y failures before x successes). That's binary either succeed or fail... there is no SC condition that is a partial success or a partial failure per the book... and regardless of how the fiction changes throughout the SC, at the end of it you have either succeeded or failed, plain and simple. In the example you cited the PC's either gain the help they need from the duke or they do not... there is no partial success and the conditions of such don't exist. EDIT:I'm curious about your take on the fact that the SC rules have you designate skills ahead of time as primary or secondary, and while the narrative may allow other skill choices to open up, the book states that such skills should have a hard DC (pg. 75 "Reward Clever Ideas").  So it seems like in a Skill Challenge it is advantageous for players to try and think in the mind space of the DM since they will be rewarded with easier DC's, vs. thinking outside the box which will result in harder DC's.  This seems like an issue where it's easier to just go along with what the DM has pre-planned rather than try and "create"the narrative you may want.I'm not commenting as to why they created DMG 2... I just find it ironic that when one talks about any other edition, the discussion is usually regulated to the core books while with 4e it isn't.I'm not sure about DMG 2 but I believe the rules in essentials for Skill Challenges are different from DMG 1.</blockquote>

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