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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6182693" data-attributes="member: 48965">So let me get this straight... you're claiming that a success/failure can be focused on a particular task... but the adjudicated outcome can have nothing whatsoever to do with the task at hand but instead be based on the overall skill challenge... if the outcome of the success or failure of a skill check, can have nothing whatsoever to do with the actual task that was undertaken then how can you claim that the skill check corresponds to a particular event, since the outcome is part of that check?This would be great if we were discussing BW, but we are not.  Though going back to the point I and Starfox made earlier, it is amazing to me how many times you reference and pull from other games to discuss SC's in 4e...   Seems pretty clear to me.It entails partial success is impossible, because (as per the rules) there is no stated partial success or partial failure conditions or goals.  Now on a personal level you can choose to define whatever you want as "partial success"or a "partial failure" but these are not states achievable in the SC rules as presented.How about we stick to how they are defined in the rules... If you get X successes before Y failures you succeed at the skill challenge and attain the success goal.  If you instead get Y failures before X successes you fail and are instead subject to the failure conditions... anything else is just stuff you're houseruling in.Ok I'll respond to each...1. Per the rules this is a success...X successes before Y failures.2. Again this is a success the PC's attain the goal, how or why isn't important to the outcome state, only that they got the X successes before Y failures.3. This is a failure and they shouldn't get some of what they want (unless this is in the fail result for the SC). The failure state of a SC is defined when the SC is created and that is what should happen if they fail... again this seems like you modifying the rules to your own "version"of SC's.There can be goals to a combat but they are not required to have precise, pre-defined success and failure results, combats are more organic than SC's as presented in the book due to this... and they don't have to have precisely defined victory or failure conditions. i.e. 5 successful attacks before 3 successful enemy attacks.  This is a defining feature of SC's not combats.</blockquote>

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