D&D 4E Skill Check Progression Table Akin to 4E's

Syntallah

First Post
Note: please no 'edition war' stuff!

4E has a very cool progression table for skill checks wherein the DM can look at a PCs level, and simply decide if the check about to made is: Easy, Moderate, or Hard. He then has a target DC for that check.

Now, I realize that this may be an 'apples to oranges' comparison because in 4E there is a smooth progression based upon level, and in 3E it is dependant upon how many ranks have been purchased in a skill, which introduces a significant variable to the equation, but...

Has anyone in the community tried to come up with a 3E chart for skill checks skin to the one found in 4E?


For the curious, an example of the chart:

Lvl Easy Mod Hard
1st 8 12 19
 

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In the beginning of the DMG (pg. 31), there is a big table that talks about various skill checks and who should be able to hit the various DCs.

Otherwise, the rule of thumb for 3.5 skill checks is usually a +/- 2 on the check to represent bad or good scenarios.
 

It shouldn't be too hard to put something together that's in the same vein as the 4e chart. Let me see what I can do...

From the 4e Rules Compendium, pg 126:

An easy DC is a reasonable challenge for creatures that do not have training in a particular skill. Such creatures have about a 65 percent chance of meeting an easy DC of their level. An easy DC is a minimal challenge for a creature that has training in the skill, and it is almost a guaranteed success for one that also has a high bonus with teh skill...

A moderate DC is a reasonable challenge for creatures that have training in a particular skill as well as for creatures that don't have training but do have a high score (18 or higher) in the skill's key ability. Such creatures have about a 65 percent chance of meeting a moderate DC of their level...

A hard DC is a reasonable challenge for creatures that have training in a particular skill and also have a high score (18 or higher) in the skill's key ability. Such creatures have about a 65 percent chance of meeting a hard DC of their level.

I would start there, and with hard DCs (though I'd change the starting assumptions to a stat of 16 at lower levels, personally).

A 1st level 3e character with max ranks (4), a 16 stat (+3) and no other bonuses has a +7 to a skill check. If the DC is 15, this guy makes the check on a natural 8 or higher- 65% of the time.

I'd increase hard DCs at a rate just over 1 per level. Between Skill Focus or +2/+2 feats, items boosting skills, racial bonuses and ability increases from level and gear, I'd add an extra +1 to the DC something like four to eight times- maybe as often as every odd level after 1st, but I would have to look at some 3e pcs again, and it has been a while.

At the opposite (easy) end, a pc with a 10 stat and no ranks has a total of +0, which doesn't automatically go up by levels (unlike in 4e). I'd start with the same easy DC of 8 as 4e, but only increase it a bit with levels- about as often as you bump the DC on hard checks above the 1/level progression. So maybe up to DC 14 or 17 by 20th level. This is a weird case, though; 4e's assumptions on math by level are so baked in here that it's hard to say. I mean, higher level pcs will have higher stats, a smattering of ranks in barely-trained skills here and there, etc...

For moderate DCs,I'd start with the assumption of "4 ranks, no stat bonus" at first level. To make this 65% of the time, the DC should be 12. This one I'd increase slightly slower than 1/level, maybe leaving the DC stable on levels that end in 5 and 0.

What's this look like in practice?

Level --- Easy/Moderate/Hard DC
1 --- 8/12/15
2 --- 8/13/16
3 --- 8/14/17
4 --- 9/15/19
5 --- 9/15/20
6 --- 9/16/21
7 --- 10/17/23
8 --- 10/18/24
9 --- 10/19/25
10 --- 10/19/26
11 --- 11/20/28
12 --- 11/21/29
13 --- 11/22/30
14 --- 11/23/31
15 --- 12/23/33
16 --- 12/24/34
17 --- 12/25/35
18 --- 12/26/36
19 --- 13/27/38
20 --- 13/27/39

Like I said, it's been a while since I've 3e'd, but that feels about right to me. I'd have to really look over some stats to check it out, though.
 

Outstanding, Jester! Thanks! This is just what I was looking for.

I personlly play 4E, but a friend of mine has just started DMing for a 3E group and is constantly asking for advice. I really like the 4E table and think this will help him out immensely at his game...
 

Outstanding, Jester! Thanks! This is just what I was looking for.

I personlly play 4E, but a friend of mine has just started DMing for a 3E group and is constantly asking for advice. I really like the 4E table and think this will help him out immensely at his game...

Glad to help!

Yeah, my current system is 4e, too, but I've played and dmed everything back to the ol' Basic Set. Hopefully the table gets is close to right- like I said, it would probably be wise to evaluate it by eying some stats of pcs at various levels and kind of checking out their odds of success. But with luck, it's close enough for, ahh, dming work. ;)
 


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