D&D 5E Skills Should Be Core

[Falling Icicle]

3rd edition D&D fights against the notion that its easier to include material so others can remove it, rather than start with a simple base and add as desired.

Either approach leaves players feeling left out in the cold, but one is decidedly more newbie friendly, and the other more veteran friendly.

3e wasn't designed in a way that any of its components could be easily removed. Everything in the PHB was considered to be mandatory, remove at your own peril. DnDN is being designed with an entirely different philosophy. And even with every single option "turned on", Next is a much simpler game than 3e, even if you're just talking about its core 3 rulebooks.

Compare the skills, for example. 3e's skill ranks are far more complicated than Next's skills, which you either have or you don't, and a skill die that scales with level. In Next, you can try many things without having a skill at all. In 3e, there were not only "trained only" restrictions on many actions, but also, since you could have up to (level +3) ranks in a skill, and the DCs were set accordingly, it was often pointless to even bother trying if you didn't have max ranks in a skill, or close to it.

 

[Talath]

3e wasn't designed in a way that any of its components could be easily removed. Everything in the PHB was considered to be mandatory, remove at your own peril. DnDN is being designed with an entirely different philosophy. And even with every single option "turned on", Next is a much simpler game than 3e, even if you're just talking about its core 3 rulebooks.

Compare the skills, for example. 3e's skill ranks are far more complicated than Next's skills, which you either have or you don't, and a skill die that scales with level. In Next, you can try many things without having a skill at all. In 3e, there were not only "trained only" restrictions on many actions, but also, since you could have up to (level +3) ranks in a skill, and the DCs were set accordingly, it was often pointless to even bother trying if you didn't have max ranks in a skill, or close to it.

This is a very valid point, and I agree with what you are saying. Nonetheless, I stand by my original assertion, based on the idea that too many choices can burden newcomers with an overload of information.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I think that skills should not only be core, but should be incredibly important, too. Very well-defined, with uses spelled out in how they can be used (though used in other ways at DM discretion), so that it empowers players to invest into skills in ways they know they can use them.

Also, I found "I'm this good at these things, but especially good at this thing" very intuitive when learning the game (or WoD, or whatever). And the new players I've shown to play also find this intuitive. Like, "ah, this is how fast I am, but putting [resource] into [skill] means I'm good in this area because [I'm trained / natural talent]? That's what I want." There's no real confusion with anyone I've shown games to (which is only about a dozen people on the high end, so nothing massive, by any means).

At any rate, I see why skills aren't core, but I hope the skill module is robust, well-defined, and very important when used. Just stay far, far away from the skill die, please... As always, play what you like

 

[Gargoyle]

I like skills optional because I think many more groups than people realize just don't care about these rules. Most people who began playing before 3e probably don't have as much of a problem with skills being optional. They can get by just fine with ability score checks, and don't need all the extra homework. I believe it's very important to have a streamlined core.

 

[GX.Sigma]

And even with every single option "turned on", Next is a much simpler game than 3e, even if you're just talking about its core 3 rulebooks.

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be simpler. That's like making a 5 hour movie, and saying "well, it's a lot shorter than Lord of the Rings, even if you're just talking about the theatrical editions."

 

[Obryn]

I don't really care for skills in a class based game like D&D. As far as I'm concerned, your class and a more general "background" should be enough to fill out a noncombat resolution system. Get Advantage for class-related and background-related stuff and you're done.

-O

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I hope skills are not part of the core. At least 3E-style skills. In fact, when we finally have the finished game in our hands, I expect to use the class/subclass/background choice to solve all the skill-related needs of my own games.

 

[dd.stevenson]

I've never met a skill system that I love, and what I've seen batted around in DDN isn't changing my mind.

That said, I'm sure some alternate universe somewhere has a skill system that I'd absolutely love to see in the basic version of DDN.

 

[Blackwarder]

I also disagree, I'd rather the game won't have skills in the core and if I want skills I'll be able to slot any skill system that I want. I really don't like 3e and 4e skill system anyway, I'd much rather have a dice pool system than a single d20 system.

Warder

 

[Paraxis]

I would love to see a something like "backgrounds" from 13th Age. In 13th Age you get 8 background points to put into things like; warden of the watch, back alley fence, smith at the great forge, king's guard, ect...you can put up to 5 background points into any one thing. These replace skills if you can justify how a background can apply to the ability score check in question you get to add the points you have in the background to your roll.

Example a member of the king's guard could add that bonus to his wisdom check to spot a hidden sniper or sense motive on someone trying to lie to him.

But I must admit I like the dice part of the skills with NEXT, so maybe since the cap on backgrounds is 5 anyway, let the number of points in the background determine the size of die added. 1=d4, 2=d6, 3=d8, 4=d10, and 5=d12.

But to answer the original question, yes some sort of skill system should be core to the game. I honestly think it is just expected, I recently went through character creation for a 4e game with someone who only ever played AD&D, they were making a rogue and before skills were mentioned at all they started asking about how they were going to find traps and climb walls.