Skills That Should be Handy for an Adventurer...But Aren't in Actual Play.
- Thread starter Felon
- Start date
lukelightning
First Post
My proposal is to make broader skills.
Climb, jump, swim = athletics.
Spot, listen, search = perception
Open lock, disable device, maybe craft trap = disable device (locks are nothing but a device)
Spellcraft and knowledge (arcana) = knowledge (magic)
Tumble, balance, escape artist = acrobatics
Intimidate, bluff, diplomacy = influence
Ride, handle animal = handle animal
etc.
Perhaps each skill has 3 facets and the character has the option of specializing in one, giving it a +3 bonus while the other two facets of the skill have a -2 penalty.
Climb, jump, swim = athletics.
Spot, listen, search = perception
Open lock, disable device, maybe craft trap = disable device (locks are nothing but a device)
Spellcraft and knowledge (arcana) = knowledge (magic)
Tumble, balance, escape artist = acrobatics
Intimidate, bluff, diplomacy = influence
Ride, handle animal = handle animal
etc.
Perhaps each skill has 3 facets and the character has the option of specializing in one, giving it a +3 bonus while the other two facets of the skill have a -2 penalty.
lukelightning
First Post
Felon said:
I just think nobody uses it; it would be great to have in the right campaign but skill points are so precious it's not worth it. It's easier to just use illusory script on a piece of paper that makes the reader accept the paper as the proper document.
painandgreed
First Post
Felon said:
I'd say yes. Seems like it should be very handy. Forge letters and seals of nobles and governments. Conterfit and clip coins. Copy passes and letters of credit. Reseal real letters once they have been read by parties they were not intended for. In an urban setting or one with intrigue, a good forger should be worth his weight in gold. Trouble is, few campaigns seem to be in urban settings or have intrigue. It really doesn't work in a dungeon setting that often, and DMs don't include it because there are so few people that have it (and because it is probably forgotten about).
Henry
Autoexreginated
In my campaigns, I've NEVER had anyone make a "Use Rope" check. Ditto for "Decipher Script."
I do however, like combining Hide/MS into "Stealth", and climb/jump/swim into "Athletics", and spot/listen/search into perception. In fact, I see so many d20 products combine these that I'd be surprised if WotC doesn't fo that for the next edition of D&D, whenever that is.
I do however, like combining Hide/MS into "Stealth", and climb/jump/swim into "Athletics", and spot/listen/search into perception. In fact, I see so many d20 products combine these that I'd be surprised if WotC doesn't fo that for the next edition of D&D, whenever that is.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
Personally, I'd rather divide up skills that group them up.
I guess it annoys me that being good a climbing would automatically make you good at jumping, or being good at hiding automatically makes you good at moving silently.
I require separate survival skills for different climate zones (temperate, arid, sub-artic, tropical, ocean, etc. . )
I guess it annoys me that being good a climbing would automatically make you good at jumping, or being good at hiding automatically makes you good at moving silently.
I require separate survival skills for different climate zones (temperate, arid, sub-artic, tropical, ocean, etc. . )
Woas
First Post
I agree. Sometimes it feels like some skills are meant for just NPCs really... I picked a bunch of skills (16 in all).
Appraise - What's the point? Unless the characters are setting up their own store. But otherwise the characters are happy whether they are getting 600 or 700 gold coins for that ruby. It's not like the characters really set how much the merchant is going buy it for... I guess some out there like to role-play bartering and trading with merchants but my personal prefrence, along with my group I play with tend to see situations like those as big slow-downs in game pacing and turning into Papers & Paychecks.
With appraise to make it worthwhile, I allow characters to make appraise checks to 'assess the situation' in combat. Almost like a Knowledge check to see what type of denfenses and special abilities a monster would have, assessing the situation tells a player what sort of tactics they may encounter (as in feats the combats might hold - trippers, shot on the runners, etc), specific targets and what not. I guess recently Complete Adventurer did something like this in alternate uses for skills but applied it to Sense Motive.
Bluff - Not a huge problem, but its in that gray area. Not really sure how to explain it. Plus it is easily over-ridden by low level spells.
Disable Device - Ok so the rogues, bards and rangers may use this a bit to disarm traps. And it does see a lot of use that way. But thats it. The skill may as well be Disarm Trap. Setting up wheels to brake and other such situations seem rare.
Diplomacy - As the number of posts about trouble and situations with this skill in the past indicate, there just is something wrong with this skill. And like bluff, it can be circumvented with easy low-level spells.
Disguise - As others have said, there are low level spells that do this skill better than skill points. And in a fantasy world its really hard to image this skill being useful. It seems very circumstantial. I mean what if a gnome needed to look like an orc? Ok sure, get some stills an a long cloak... but still, orcs and gnomes have totally different skull structures. How does a human disguise himself as a dwarf or halfling?
Escape Artist - Like pawsplay said, player characters don't get tied up that often. Other than the rare chance they are caught in a grapple, this skill sees little use.
Forgery - Maybe other people use this more often in urban/politiking type games. But I have never seen anyone put ranks into this, or evne use it once.
Intimidate - Using this skill feels like forcing square pegs into round holes. The skill is very odd and rarely worthwhile. Ok, you intimidate the level 1 warrior goblin who has no idea what the boss goblin king had in plan since he's some grunt and isn't privy to that info... Just kill the goblin and cast Speak with Dead or whatever.
Sleight of Hand - It would seem useful. But the characters are already so rich, whats stealing 10 silver from some dude off the street going to get ya? I guess if a particular campaign was geared toward a more urban/rogue/thief theme it would be helpful.
Appraise - What's the point? Unless the characters are setting up their own store. But otherwise the characters are happy whether they are getting 600 or 700 gold coins for that ruby. It's not like the characters really set how much the merchant is going buy it for... I guess some out there like to role-play bartering and trading with merchants but my personal prefrence, along with my group I play with tend to see situations like those as big slow-downs in game pacing and turning into Papers & Paychecks.
With appraise to make it worthwhile, I allow characters to make appraise checks to 'assess the situation' in combat. Almost like a Knowledge check to see what type of denfenses and special abilities a monster would have, assessing the situation tells a player what sort of tactics they may encounter (as in feats the combats might hold - trippers, shot on the runners, etc), specific targets and what not. I guess recently Complete Adventurer did something like this in alternate uses for skills but applied it to Sense Motive.
Bluff - Not a huge problem, but its in that gray area. Not really sure how to explain it. Plus it is easily over-ridden by low level spells.
Disable Device - Ok so the rogues, bards and rangers may use this a bit to disarm traps. And it does see a lot of use that way. But thats it. The skill may as well be Disarm Trap. Setting up wheels to brake and other such situations seem rare.
Diplomacy - As the number of posts about trouble and situations with this skill in the past indicate, there just is something wrong with this skill. And like bluff, it can be circumvented with easy low-level spells.
Disguise - As others have said, there are low level spells that do this skill better than skill points. And in a fantasy world its really hard to image this skill being useful. It seems very circumstantial. I mean what if a gnome needed to look like an orc? Ok sure, get some stills an a long cloak... but still, orcs and gnomes have totally different skull structures. How does a human disguise himself as a dwarf or halfling?
Escape Artist - Like pawsplay said, player characters don't get tied up that often. Other than the rare chance they are caught in a grapple, this skill sees little use.
Forgery - Maybe other people use this more often in urban/politiking type games. But I have never seen anyone put ranks into this, or evne use it once.
Intimidate - Using this skill feels like forcing square pegs into round holes. The skill is very odd and rarely worthwhile. Ok, you intimidate the level 1 warrior goblin who has no idea what the boss goblin king had in plan since he's some grunt and isn't privy to that info... Just kill the goblin and cast Speak with Dead or whatever.
Sleight of Hand - It would seem useful. But the characters are already so rich, whats stealing 10 silver from some dude off the street going to get ya? I guess if a particular campaign was geared toward a more urban/rogue/thief theme it would be helpful.
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
el-remmen said:
Its one of those skills thats situational for many groups, but its one you dont need many ranks in when it comes up. With silk rope, 1 rank, and an unimpressive 14 dex, you can take 10 and succeed on any use rope check except bind a prisoner. Even then, you get a +10 versus their check. Though masterwork manacles (50gp, DC 35 escape artist) kind of negate the need for this.
Most of the skills in our game seem to come up with regular use, though a few houserules have helped out.
We merged Climb, Swim and Jump into Athletics. Most party members have at least a few ranks, which encourages more cinematic fights IMO.
Spot, Search and Listen were merged into Notice, with Spot and Listen being subscores representing unattended checks (ie, half value). IE, if you and a friend are talking, you get a listen (1/2 notice + any specific listen mods) to hear something randomly. However, if you are focusing your attention on something (eavesdropping on a conversation, listening at the door) you get full Notice. Its been handy for helping people remember smells and other random stuff not explicitly covered by the rules.
Balance and Tumble into Acrobatics. Pretty much the same reason as for athletics.
We changed Heal so that its a DC 10 check to cure 1 point of damage, with an additional point cured for every 5 you beat the DC by. The party routinely takes a few minutes to bind wounds after most battles.
Appraise also works like haggle, using charisma as the mod. For every point you beat the target in an opposed roll, the price rises or falls by 1% (within set maximums). One of the players maxes it out on her dragon, so she's the one who routinely takes excess loot to market.
