Skills that were class skills bought at cross-class cost?

[Kyrail]

Here's my question. It's probabley in the PHB somewhere, but I really can't find it, and all the info I do find seems to just make it more confusing.

Example:

I start as a rogue, where tumble is a class skill. I max it out at 4 points. I know for the sake of max points it's always considered a class skill now.

I then multiclass and gain a level in fighter, fighters don't get tumble as a class skill. My max ranks are still 5, but does that 1 point in tumble cost me 2 skill points, or 1 now that I'm advancing it in a class that does not get tumble as a class skill?

 

[Bastoche]

Cost 2 skill points. Can't quote, I don't have my book. You might try looking at the SRD.

 

[Spatula]

2 points. The cost of skills is always determined by the skill list of the class that you leveled up.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Here's my question. It's probabley in the PHB somewhere, but I really can't find it, and all the info I do find seems to just make it more confusing.

Example:

I start as a rogue, where tumble is a class skill. I max it out at 4 points. I know for the sake of max points it's always considered a class skill now.

I then multiclass and gain a level in fighter, fighters don't get tumble as a class skill. My max ranks are still 5, but does that 1 point in tumble cost me 2 skill points, or 1 now that I'm advancing it in a class that does not get tumble as a class skill?

Unless I'm mistaken, if you continue as a Fighter, you won't be able to put any more ranks into it until level 7, until your cross-class skills can be raised higher than 4. You keep all of the ranks from your Rogue levels, but it's still a cross-class skill and must be kept until the maximum for cross-class skills.

 

[Kyrail]

Unless I'm mistaken, if you continue as a Fighter, you won't be able to put any more ranks into it until level 7, until your cross-class skills can be raised higher than 4. You keep all of the ranks from your Rogue levels, but it's still a cross-class skill and must be kept until the maximum for cross-class skills.

I always thought it was 2 points, was actually a debate between me and another.

This comes from the SRD though:

"Regardless of whether a skill is purchased as a class skill or a cross-class skill, if it is a class skill for any of your classes, your maximum rank equals your total character level + 3."

 

[BSF]

I'm pretty sure it is once a class skill, always a class skill. You just don't get to buy it as a class skill if it isn't a class skill for the class you just leveled in.

So, your max ranks will be Character Level +3, but if you are not "studying" relevant material it is harder to bump that skill up.

 

[Drew]

Unless I'm mistaken, if you continue as a Fighter, you won't be able to put any more ranks into it until level 7, until your cross-class skills can be raised higher than 4. You keep all of the ranks from your Rogue levels, but it's still a cross-class skill and must be kept until the maximum for cross-class skills.

You're mistaken. The skill is considered a class skill for purposes of maximum ranks, meaning the PC can have up to Character Level + 3 skill ranks in that skill, but each rank costs 2 skill points when you gain a level as fighter.

 

[cordell]

The relevant parts of the rules have already been quoted above.

The Rogue1/Fighter1 has a maximum of 5 Ranks in Tumble. It will always be a class skill. The maximum for class skills is CharLevel+3. However, that 5th Rank will cost 2 Points, if purchased upon leveling as a fighter.

To demonstrate more, let's continue the example, and assume at level 3 the character takes another level of Rogue. So, at Rogue2/Fighter1, the maximum ranks allowed in Tumble becomes 6. In the example above, the character now can spend 1 skill point to get the 6th Rank of Tumble, since he is purchasing it upon leveling as a Rogue.

HOWEVER - let's rewind the whole example and do it a different way. If the character did NOT purchase the 5th rank of Tumble as a Fighter, and waited, he would be a Rogue1/Fighter1 with 4 ranks of Tumble. THEN, when he leveled again in Rogue, he could spend 2 skill points and get 2 more ranks, reaching his maximum of 6 ranks allowed. (This is a method multi-classers sometimes use to maximize the usefulness and efficiency of skill points).

The methods above work in 3.0 and 3.5, the rules have not changed. However, remember that "exclusive" skills (like the ones from 3.0) cannot be purchased cross-class at all, so the character in the above examples could not purchase Use Magic Device as a Fighter. (Technically his maximum as a Rogue1/Fighter1 is still 5 ranks, he just cannot purchase UMD as a fighter, even cross-class).

I hope that helps!

 

[RigaMortus]

However, remember that "exclusive" skills (like the ones from 3.0) cannot be purchased cross-class at all,

I am pretty sure they removed "exclusive" skills all together. Every skills is either a class skill or a cross-class skill for every character. So a Fighter could pick up Use Magic Device, Disable Device, Sleight of Hand, etc.

 

[Christian]

Actually, cordell, his max ranks in an exclusive skill are calculated only from his levels in classes that have access to the skill. So the Rog1/Ftr1 has max skill ranks in Use Magic Device of 4.

And frankly, I think the math required to cope with this was the main reason that exclusive skills were dropped from 3.5. From balance and flavor standpoints, there's really no problem ...