SKR's problem with certain high level encounters
- Thread starter greymarch
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evildmguy
Explorer
Good points.
Greetings!
Thanks for the replies.
Good points were made.
dmuncheon: Yes, some players would undoubtably abuse the system. A couple of suggestions.
First of all, perhaps adders like this should never be more than +1? (I will speak about the wish effects in a moment.) What this would attempt to do is put more emphasis on the base CR (1/2 HD) than any special attributes or abilities. This isn't perfect, obviously. 1/2 HD doesn't say what else they can do. Again, though, did you catch "can" in that sentence. I am already talking potential as I talk about CRs.
Second, if the encounter is always about equal, again, it would be a wash. If the group actually let the undead spell caster cast, they are taking a chance that they aren't blasted by the spell. That is nearly proportionate at all levels.
Last, again, I think that CRs are a good baseline but not much above that. One of the developers (maybe Monte but I am not sure) gave examples where the CR would go up based on how intelligent the encounter was played. The specific example was a fight with some archers (fighters). As a straight fight, it was a CR of 2. To make it a 3, the archers used cover. Here is where I said what? To do the obvious thing of protecting yourself increases the CR? But it does. Items count in DND and items used well also count. There is a big difference between two 10th level fighters, one who has no equipment compared to one who does.
I have found in game play that tactics, rolls and items are equally helpful. My group was almost defeated by dogs! I think I had them as CRs of 1/3 and 3 dogs (for a CR of 1, barely) almost killed the party! In an epic level I ran, a CR of 25 vs a group of 37th level (and there were 9 players, so they were probably a 40) almost killed the group!
This almost brings up a separate but related note. What about CRs that are based on *specific* items or spells to overcome? For example, I had created a small quest that involved going underwater. None of the characters had any way to breathe underwater but a few did have Freedom of Movement. What then? Does overcoming that give them more XP because they had to think about it? If they all had stuff to get by right away, would it reduce it because it was trivial?
After all of that, I think what the DM should do is *AFTER* the battle, evaluate how tough it was and give XP that they think is appropriate for the fight. It still creates a grey area but I would rather have it with the DM than a formula that may or may not work. Guidelines would still be needed but no hard and fast formula.
Just some more coppers.
edg
Greetings!
Thanks for the replies.
Good points were made.
dmuncheon: Yes, some players would undoubtably abuse the system. A couple of suggestions.
First of all, perhaps adders like this should never be more than +1? (I will speak about the wish effects in a moment.) What this would attempt to do is put more emphasis on the base CR (1/2 HD) than any special attributes or abilities. This isn't perfect, obviously. 1/2 HD doesn't say what else they can do. Again, though, did you catch "can" in that sentence. I am already talking potential as I talk about CRs.
Second, if the encounter is always about equal, again, it would be a wash. If the group actually let the undead spell caster cast, they are taking a chance that they aren't blasted by the spell. That is nearly proportionate at all levels.
Last, again, I think that CRs are a good baseline but not much above that. One of the developers (maybe Monte but I am not sure) gave examples where the CR would go up based on how intelligent the encounter was played. The specific example was a fight with some archers (fighters). As a straight fight, it was a CR of 2. To make it a 3, the archers used cover. Here is where I said what? To do the obvious thing of protecting yourself increases the CR? But it does. Items count in DND and items used well also count. There is a big difference between two 10th level fighters, one who has no equipment compared to one who does.
I have found in game play that tactics, rolls and items are equally helpful. My group was almost defeated by dogs! I think I had them as CRs of 1/3 and 3 dogs (for a CR of 1, barely) almost killed the party! In an epic level I ran, a CR of 25 vs a group of 37th level (and there were 9 players, so they were probably a 40) almost killed the group!
This almost brings up a separate but related note. What about CRs that are based on *specific* items or spells to overcome? For example, I had created a small quest that involved going underwater. None of the characters had any way to breathe underwater but a few did have Freedom of Movement. What then? Does overcoming that give them more XP because they had to think about it? If they all had stuff to get by right away, would it reduce it because it was trivial?
After all of that, I think what the DM should do is *AFTER* the battle, evaluate how tough it was and give XP that they think is appropriate for the fight. It still creates a grey area but I would rather have it with the DM than a formula that may or may not work. Guidelines would still be needed but no hard and fast formula.
Just some more coppers.
edg
Last edited:
Bragg Battleaxe
First Post
Rav said:
I agree, in fact I have been using a free form xp system. BUT there is still the issue of using CR to determine how tough a monster will be for the party... I don't think xp is really the issue, TPK's however, are.
Sonofapreacherman
Explorer
Well, if a "free form" system works for you and your players, that's great. But the point of this thread is to create a system that is far less arbitrary, and far more accurate than the current system of tracking encounters levels and Experience Points.
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