Slam Attack - Virtual Imp Unarmed Strike?

[Insight]

I had a question regarding creatures with Slam Attacks. Since a creature with a Slam Attack does not provoke AoO when delivering what is essentially an unarmed attack, and it often does more damage than a creature of its type and size unarmed, does such a creature have a virtual Improved Unarmed Strike?

Asking this question for the purposes of gaining feats with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat as a prereq more than anything else.

 

[Marimmar@Home]

No, a slam is a natural weapon and that is defined as follows:

Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

It is not a virtual Unarmed Strike for Feat selection purposes. It's similar but not the same. Houserule it if you want.


~Marimmar

 

[Diirk]

No. Its a natural attack; natural attacks are different from unarmed strikes.

 

[Insight]

Hmm... well while that fits in most cases, there are creatures listed with Slam Attacks that are clearly just doing the same thing that normal humanoids do. Undead are a good example of this. They are just punching, kicking, and biting people, pretty much the same as you could do with Improved Unarmed Strike. I don't really see much of a difference here, and I likewise don't see any advantage for such creatures wasting a feat on Improved Unarmed Strike when it doesn't add anything to what they can already do.

Maybe I'll just house rule it, because it's pretty dumb if you think about it. Almost like anyone above 1st level taking Toughness. Or the Run feat. Another option I suppose is to house rule the Feats themselves to have the prereqs say "Improved Unarmed Strike or Natural Attack".

 

[Felonious Monk]

I was just wondering about this myself, as I was considering the usefulness of Deflect Arrows to a rakshasa PC. I knew that it wasn't covered by the rules per say, but I was wondering what others would think of essentially the same house rule above.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Hmm... well while that fits in most cases, there are creatures listed with Slam Attacks that are clearly just doing the same thing that normal humanoids do. Undead are a good example of this. They are just punching, kicking, and biting people, pretty much the same as you could do with Improved Unarmed Strike.

I don't envision it this way. If an Undead has a Slam attack, I imagine it pulling back its shoulder and pummeling its enemy with the dead flesh of its arm. It's arm becomes weaponlike because an undead creature feels no pain, is not hurt or even distracted much if the arm is damaged, and the blood inside is congealed so that the arm is heavier and more solid than a living arm would be. None of this is the same as an Unarmed Strike, which I imagine is more like a martial arts move.

I don't really see much of a difference here, and I likewise don't see any advantage for such creatures wasting a feat on Improved Unarmed Strike when it doesn't add anything to what they can already do.

There is no advantage to it. But not all feats are advantageous for all characters. This is particularly true of feat chains. Sometimes you pay the price of a less useful feat in order to gain the advantages of a more powerful feat later on.

Maybe I'll just house rule it, because it's pretty dumb if you think about it.

I don't think it's dumb at all. But of course opinions vary. By all means House Rule it. That's what makes the game so flexible, even though we all have different preferences.

I was just wondering about this myself, as I was considering the usefulness of Deflect Arrows to a rakshasa PC. I knew that it wasn't covered by the rules per say, but I was wondering what others would think of essentially the same house rule above.

As a DM, I'd require the PC to take Improved Unarmed Strike to get Deflect Arrows. Slamming your body into something isn't the same as the martial arts feel of Improved Unarmed Strike which leads to the even more martial artsy Deflect Arrows. But of course YMMV.