Sleep spell....overpowered?
- Thread starter briareios
- Start date
Darkthorne
First Post
hong said:
rotflmao Majoru Oakheart
Adventurer
Well, an 18 in a stat is 16 points. You would have 6 left, which could get you a 14 in your Int and 1 point left over which you put into Cha.Derren said:
Assuming you always choose to increase both your int and wis every time you get an increase then:
1. You don't have enough charisma to take Spell Focus until 21st level.
2. Your Int is 22 at 30th level. So, you'll likely have +27 to hit with a +6 implement. Taking a 30th level monster: An ancient Red Dragon, you'd need 16s to his his REF. 11s to hit the Tarrasque, 13 to hit a Godforged Colossus(although he's level 29 and immune to sleep), 19s to hit Orcus, 16s to hit a Runescribed Dracolich(also 29). Not the best chance to hit by yourself.
3. The biggest non-warlord bonus you could get to attacks from another class is +2. A Warlord has a couple of powers that can add +Int Mod to hit, but only against the target he already hit, so it requires a bit to set up.
4. You could spend an action point in order to boost your attack bonus as much as +7 or so to your attack roll. In which case, yep, you'd be able to do some nasty stuff for that one attack.
Even an int focussed mage can take advantage of this, lets say you went with a 20 int, 13 wis, 13 chr. You do not need to put any more points into charisma, your free action at level 1 gives you just an additional -1 to there saves
so using derrens math but starting with a 13 wis(which I totally could be screwing up)
* start with a 13 Wisdom (+1)
* At 30th level characters can raise two stats by 8 (+4)
* Spell Focus gives a -2 save penalty
* Demigod ED gives +2 to Wis
In the end this ability gives a -8 to saves.
Fairly cool and not even optimized for this while keeping the high int for reflex defense and bitting with your spells. If a person was not obsessed with having a 20 INT(admittedly I would be with any wizard I made) then they could have a 18 INT after the +2 and what a 16 wis and still have points for chr. so:
* start with a 1 Wisdom (+3)
* At 30th level characters can raise two stats by 8 (+4)
* Spell Focus gives a -2 save penalty
* Demigod ED gives +2 to Wis
In the end this ability gives a -10 to saves.
I don't know if this is broken yet or anything but it does seem powerful, what kind of bonuses to saves to high ad epic level monsters have. The dragon in the sample adventure had a +5 and he was a low level dragon.
If someone thinks this is an issue where too many monsters have way too low of a chance to save, then a quick houserule would be to limit the penalties to saves to countering bonuses, so it leaves these spells as an option for powerful monsters while not making them dominating vs any monster without the 4e equivalent to spell resistance.
so using derrens math but starting with a 13 wis(which I totally could be screwing up)
* start with a 13 Wisdom (+1)
* At 30th level characters can raise two stats by 8 (+4)
* Spell Focus gives a -2 save penalty
* Demigod ED gives +2 to Wis
In the end this ability gives a -8 to saves.
Fairly cool and not even optimized for this while keeping the high int for reflex defense and bitting with your spells. If a person was not obsessed with having a 20 INT(admittedly I would be with any wizard I made) then they could have a 18 INT after the +2 and what a 16 wis and still have points for chr. so:
* start with a 1 Wisdom (+3)
* At 30th level characters can raise two stats by 8 (+4)
* Spell Focus gives a -2 save penalty
* Demigod ED gives +2 to Wis
In the end this ability gives a -10 to saves.
I don't know if this is broken yet or anything but it does seem powerful, what kind of bonuses to saves to high ad epic level monsters have. The dragon in the sample adventure had a +5 and he was a low level dragon.
If someone thinks this is an issue where too many monsters have way too low of a chance to save, then a quick houserule would be to limit the penalties to saves to countering bonuses, so it leaves these spells as an option for powerful monsters while not making them dominating vs any monster without the 4e equivalent to spell resistance.
Jack99
Adventurer
hong said:
Not to mention that just about every single
I don't see it as broken, but until I have the books in hand and had time to tinker with how long far you can bend builds, I will reserve the right to change my mind!
Either way, this is why I am glad that my players are role-players first and foremost, instead of optimizers. It's just a lot less hassle.
It's odd..virtually every other power in the book that renders opponents unconscious says they wake up when injured. The rest and sleep section of the PHB gives rules for it too. But it doesn't say that creatures wake up from Sleep when injured.
Until official word otherwise, I will rule they do.
Until official word otherwise, I will rule they do.
One target once per encounter does not mean much to me since I don't think you will be using this on minions. Having a high% chance of taking out the tough guy in the fight with one spell seems to go against the no save or die premise. Without seeing the monster manual and the expected penalty a player can slap down at the level they would likely be facing them I got no idea if this is too good or not. But this thread has given me a place too look for abuse without being caught unprepared while running a new system.
Starbuck_II
Explorer
I kinda find it funny optimizers are failing at it in 4th.
Look, you probably couldn't find these ideas till at least a month after playing 3.5. You need to relax and let natural talent flow through you.
Look, you probably couldn't find these ideas till at least a month after playing 3.5. You need to relax and let natural talent flow through you.
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