Sleeping in armor?

[Silverwave]

Hum... It won't work. I've just thought of something.

If you take a short rest just before your extended rest, you could use your healing surges to heal at max hp, then sleep in armor and don't have any penalties for it (and besides, you would regain all your encounter powers so if you're attacked during the night, you wouldn't be short on powers).

So you'll need to loose some (1 or 2) healing surges if sleeping in armor.
Let's say you loose healing surge equal to armor check penalty, with a minimum of 1 if the armor is heavy (for scale armor), so you could sleep with a leather or cloth armor without penalties.

 

[Surgoshan]

I wouldn't say no penalty for leather. It's not like sleeping in a leather jacket on a fine, italian leather sofa. A boiled leather cuirass would be like sleeping in an old boot.

Perhaps one for leather or hide, two for chain or scale, three for plate.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

So if one is caught unawares in the middle of the night, How long does it take to put on armor? I don't think armor should give a penalty for sleeping. I think thats a hold over from 3.5. It was broken in my opinion. The fighter always got the shaft.

 

[Spido]

This might be a case where it is worth considering the advice in the DMG in the section entitled "Rules Design 101" (Pg. 189).

1 - Why do I want to change or add this rule?
It is logical that sleeping in armor is going to be less comfortable than sleeping in your MegaTroll(tm) feety pajamas. Therefore, for real-world consistency, one should be "penalized" for doing so.

2 - What should the change accomplish?
Including a penalty for sleeping in armor naturally provides an incentive to NOT sleep in armor. When does this become an issue? Only when an attack comes during an extended rest. Therefore, a rule that discourages sleeping in armor is only important if the DM wants to stage encounters that disrupt extended rests and put the melee classes at a disadvantage in such encounters. It takes 5 minutes to don armor (PHB pg. 212), so the melee fighters can grab a shield, at best. A DM should really only institute a rule for sleeping in armor if it is important for the game that characters are attacked on a relatively regular basis during extended rests and the DM wants them to be vulnerable in these encounters (or penalize them in some way for choosing not to be vulnerable).

3 - How should my new rule accomplish my goal?
Many implementations have been suggested already in this thread. The simplest solution would be to rule that you cannot gain any benefits from an extended rest while wearing armor. The 3e design conceit that you should have the option to do whatever silly thing you want, but at a cost, doesn't necessarily need to be applied to 4e.

The balancing concern is how much do you want to punish your fighters for sleeping in armor. If it is too minor, they will continue to sleep in armor at the cost of a small annoyance (DM doesn't get vulnerable fighters during extended rests, and fighters get dinged). If it is too major, they will always be vulnerable during combat encounters that come during extended rests (DM gets vulnerable fighters during extended rests, and fighters get severely dinged if there is an encounter). Either way, you would be creating a rule that "penalizes" the melee fighters, and provides no benefits (other than being armored in combat encounters that come during rests).

Sounds like an "un-fun" undertaking overall.

4e == game
4e <> simulation

Cheers,
-Spido

 

[kclark]

I would utilize one of my new favorite skills, Endurance.
I think it fits trying to out stubborn your uncomfortable armor and catch some good sleep. It fits in with the lost in the woods causing healing surge loss.
Pick a DC appropriate (15 or 20 probably, don't have my book with me) and I think that ACP goes on Endurance checks so that should handle your heavier armors.
A failed roll results in you loosing a healing surge until you get good rest. Enough sleeping while armored and it really wears you down.

 

[Gargoyle]

So if one is caught unawares in the middle of the night, How long does it take to put on armor? I don't think armor should give a penalty for sleeping. I think thats a hold over from 3.5. It was broken in my opinion. The fighter always got the shaft.

It takes 5 minutes to put on armor. (PHB, p212)

There don't seem to be any penalties for sleeping in armor, and I wouldn't add house rules that do so. (Spido's reasoning is spot on here I think)

 

[burntgerbil]

We reasoned that simply having the stats alone for how long it takes to put on armor in combat could have indicated the thought at some point that it needed to be taken off to rest. Otherwise, the reasons to don your armor in a combat situation become much rarer - almost unnecessary. Like y'all, we looked but could find nothing about the subject.

 

[Silverwave]

We reasoned that simply having the stats alone for how long it takes to put on armor in combat could have indicated the thought at some point that it needed to be taken off to rest. Otherwise, the reasons to don your armor in a combat situation become much rarer - almost unnecessary. Like y'all, we looked but could find nothing about the subject.

That's was my reasoning too. Seems wierd that they thought it was important to create rules about how long it takes to put on armor, but nothing about sleeping in armor. I mean... why we care how much time it takes to put on armor if you can sleep with it and never remove it?

 

[balard]

I think i will go to some rules that analyzes the amount of comfort you get in your extended rest. Like if you sleep in a stone floor with dangerous monster wandering nearby you can recover only max healing surges -2.

But someone gave the right idea. Less ideal conditions of rest call for a endurance test. The results determines how well you rest that night.

It will give a nice smile in the PCs faces when they get again back to de civilization for a warm meal and a nice bed.

 

[Craith]

I have slept quite a few times comfortably in chainmail. Don't forget, you wear padded armor (a gambeson) under the heavier armors, to cushion blows.

Plate on the other hand is not as cozy, and you would do well to remove it, or at least sleep in a half-sitting position. I know people who do that quite regulary (compared to the times we wear armor ), but their backs ache and they are a bit sleepy the next day.

On the other hand, we are what? Level 1 with MAYBE a 14 Con?

I don't think I will penalize my players mechanically, but they may feel stupid, sleeping in armor when it's not necessary. Down in the abyss, knee deep in rotten demon corpes, sleeping on a small ledge overlooking the plains? I bet they will sleep in armor, but in a big city, at the local inn?