If my players attack a normal monster, and it's completely surprised (not just that the player is hidden/came around a corner/unexpectedly betrayed him, but that the monster didn't know they were there and wasn't even looking for them) I treat it as a minion. They still have to hit with an attack roll, but that should be fairly easy. Elites and such I allow to live, but they're still surprised.
Slicing throats?
- Thread starter oakbriar
- Start date
DracoSuave
First Post
This is one of those situations the combat rules don't -quite- cover, the stealthy taking out of combatants during a sneaky infiltration.
However, Skill Challenges -do-.
Remember, you -can- use Skill Challenges to replace monsters, and have the success or failure of the skill challenge reflect on the next encounter, or outright replace it.
In this case, primary Skill would be Stealth, Acrobatics.
Secondary skills, well, History, Bluff, and Athletics.
Players skipping their turn and doing nothing at all count as a failure. (A guard happens on where they are hiding and waiting for the rogue to do his stuff.)
Make it a complexity 3 skill challenge, followed by an immediate complexity 2 skill challenge.
Failing the first skill challenge means the party has to fight many of the guards outside, and that an alarm will be sounded. Succeeding at it means that they can fight -less- of the guards outside, but that -if- they fight quick and hard enough, they can avoid the alarm being sounded.
But the second skill challenge:
Failure means they'll have the encounter for success above
Success means they'll have no encounter, and no chance for an alarm sounded unless they mess up in the place they are infiltrating.
And yes, successes translate into a slit throat, perhaps.
However, Skill Challenges -do-.
Remember, you -can- use Skill Challenges to replace monsters, and have the success or failure of the skill challenge reflect on the next encounter, or outright replace it.
In this case, primary Skill would be Stealth, Acrobatics.
Secondary skills, well, History, Bluff, and Athletics.
Players skipping their turn and doing nothing at all count as a failure. (A guard happens on where they are hiding and waiting for the rogue to do his stuff.)
Make it a complexity 3 skill challenge, followed by an immediate complexity 2 skill challenge.
Failing the first skill challenge means the party has to fight many of the guards outside, and that an alarm will be sounded. Succeeding at it means that they can fight -less- of the guards outside, but that -if- they fight quick and hard enough, they can avoid the alarm being sounded.
But the second skill challenge:
Failure means they'll have the encounter for success above
Success means they'll have no encounter, and no chance for an alarm sounded unless they mess up in the place they are infiltrating.
And yes, successes translate into a slit throat, perhaps.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Sure they do. If you're the right type of character, you can pull this off as much as you want on minions, 1/day you can potentially do it to an elite, and it's possible with some extra to do it 1/day to a solo.
Also remember that as a rogue, you're quite likely to get your surprise round AND initiative on the first round. So with an action point you've potentially got 3 attacks to kill your foe in. More if you can stun him.
Knockout renders a target unconscious, which means they're ripe for a CDG. That's anything that you can bloody with a crit dead. And a rogue with a nice big attack and a nice big weapon can bloody a lot of things on a crit.
Garrote grip is like knockout++ once you get those 3 sustains in. So:
Surprise round: hit with GG
First real round (you're a rogue, so there is a very high chance you win initiative): sustain, knockout
Foe gets no action
Second real round: sustain, stunning blow IF the foe saved against knockout
foe gets no action
Third real round: sustain, foe is out for the count so you can safely drag him off and drown him in a bucket or throw him into hot magma, or whatever.
I mean sure: you used 2 dailies. But you just killed a solo elite (assuming you didn't miss or roll badly on initiative)!
Ah, this thread takes me back. For those of you still interested on playing Rambo in Russian prison caves, we have a preview for Break & Enter, Book I: Stealth Encounters in Combat Advantage #20. It includes a sample stealth encounter (with notes) to give you a concept of how you can kill ANYONE in combat, no matter what class you belong to, what weapon you use, and more.
There is much more to what's listed here, but thought it would be appreciated here.
Break & Enter, Book I: Stealth Encounters is written by Todd Crapper and Tim Rose. Published by Emerald Press PDF Publishing for release in March 2011. (Price = $5 US for the PDF; once all three volumes of B&E have been released, we'll release a complete volume in Print On Demand.)
There is much more to what's listed here, but thought it would be appreciated here.
Break & Enter, Book I: Stealth Encounters is written by Todd Crapper and Tim Rose. Published by Emerald Press PDF Publishing for release in March 2011. (Price = $5 US for the PDF; once all three volumes of B&E have been released, we'll release a complete volume in Print On Demand.)
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eriktheguy
First Post
Yeah, I generally allow helpless/coupdegras
It usually puts strikers within 'one hit kill' capability
And assassins get to build up 4 shrouds if they follow them for 4 rounds, without alerting the target.
Because it's flavor gold.
And of course one attack starts a combat with any remaining enemies, at which point it boils down to just CA.
It usually puts strikers within 'one hit kill' capability
And assassins get to build up 4 shrouds if they follow them for 4 rounds, without alerting the target.
Because it's flavor gold.
And of course one attack starts a combat with any remaining enemies, at which point it boils down to just CA.
Exactly. It takes a co-ordinated effort and everyone has to succeed - putting the rounds it takes for every character, including slow ones, means you could be needlessly extending an encounter by 4 or 5 rounds. It needs a few adjustments if you want to truly experience stealth combat.
Using nothing but minions can become boring (my own players have found this after extensive playtesting). A hit can still deal weak damage and leave any option to fail (cause it's boring when you always win, then your DM won't allow it anymore). A target hit by a stealth attack with a few hit points adds a little tension to the encounter and if the target lives, it only has a fraction of it's normal hut points - this makes your successful Stealth checks worth something rather than waste them on one poor roll.
I've found it easier to simply devise a unique encounter type specifically designed to make stealth combat work. Working within the confines of regular combat rules is counter-intuitive; regular combat was designed to be brazen and explosive performances of power. By making a new encounter type - stealth encounters - you can create something with the flow if combat and the versatility of skill challenges that still takes as long as regular combat. I've been using this for over a year now and (sorry to brag), it works quite well.
Dice4Hire
First Post
Yes, I agree stealth combat is different form regular combat.
My largest problem with stealth combat is that if a character goes whole hog into it, the monsters are basically helpless against it.
And the rest of the party has no fun either.
In my group, we jsut do not play 4E that way.
My largest problem with stealth combat is that if a character goes whole hog into it, the monsters are basically helpless against it.
And the rest of the party has no fun either.
In my group, we jsut do not play 4E that way.
