Slight Rogue Variant

[maggot]

Oftentimes the rogue class fits a character concept but the sneak attack seems out of place. Sometimes the sneak attack is just too much. So we are thinking of the following variant:

Everytime a rogue gains a die of sneak attack he can choose a feat instead.

Does this seem unbalancing in anyway? We first thought of limiting it to fighter feats, but then realized we were forcing combat abilities on characters that might not want them. So go ahead and take skill focus or alertness instead of sneak attack.

The only problem I can see is that it encourages even more the 1-level of rogue problem. 8 skill points and a feat is too much to pass up for many characters. We have a solution to this in our game already, but is it really that much of a problem? If everyone wants skills instead of Base Attack Bonus or spellcaster, so what?

 

[Nifft]

I think that's actually an "official" WotC variant per Unearthed Arcana.

Seems no worse than a Fighter 1-level dip (1 Feat, plus all martial weapons, plus all armors, plus +1 BAB) or a Ranger dip. Or Monk. Or Barbarian.

-- N

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I think that's actually an "official" WotC variant per Unearthed Arcana.

Not that I am aware of Nifft. I just checked. The only variant I came across was the Wilderness Rogue.

I know that in one sourcebook a character can take a feat to add +1d6 to their sneak attack damage. So I think it would be fine to swap out sneak attack damage for a feat.

 

[dekrass]

P58 of UA under Other Class Variants header.

 

[Turanil]

In addition you could allow the generic Expert class from Unearthed Arcana, that enables to tailor many concepts with some flexibility.

 

[ARandomGod]

Oftentimes the rogue class fits a character concept but the sneak attack seems out of place. Sometimes the sneak attack is just too much. So we are thinking of the following variant:

Everytime a rogue gains a die of sneak attack he can choose a feat instead.

Does this seem unbalancing in anyway? We first thought of limiting it to fighter feats, but then realized we were forcing combat abilities on characters that might not want them. So go ahead and take skill focus or alertness instead of sneak attack.

The only problem I can see is that it encourages even more the 1-level of rogue problem. 8 skill points and a feat is too much to pass up for many characters. We have a solution to this in our game already, but is it really that much of a problem? If everyone wants skills instead of Base Attack Bonus or spellcaster, so what?

Well, as far as I can see, you'll get more bonus feats than a fighter over 20 levels, and you'll get way more skill points. Of course, you DO lose 5 BAB....

Personally, I think that I'd do the opposite of limiting it to fighter feats, and I'd pick out rogue only feats. And any skill focus or feat that gives +2/+2 would definitly be roguish.

 

[Nifft]

Don't forget that Fighters get:
1/ all martial weapons
2/ all armor & shields
3/ d10 HP per level

These are significant advantages. Even over a Feat-Rogue.

-- N

 

[Aaron2]

Well, as far as I can see, you'll get more bonus feats than a fighter over 20 levels, and you'll get way more skill points. Of course, you DO lose 5 BAB....

I was thinking that later Sneak Attack damage dice arn't worth as much as the original ones. So the first 4 dice of SA damage are 1 feat per die. After that, each feat used or SA gets +2d6. This way, the entire +10d6 damage for the rogue can be bought for 7 feats. Thus, trading out SA damage should yield the rogue 7 feats instead of 10.


Aaron

 

[Li Shenron]

Personally, I think that I'd do the opposite of limiting it to fighter feats, and I'd pick out rogue only feats. And any skill focus or feat that gives +2/+2 would definitly be roguish.

I think that having a Rogue's own bonus feat list is a good idea, and for flavor also.
Of the core feats, I'd probably allow the following:

(all the +2/+2 feats)
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Dodge
Improved Disarm
Improved Feint
Improved Initiative
Improved Trip
Mobility
Quick Draw
Rapid Reload
Run
Skill Focus
Spring Attack
Weapon Finesse

If the list is too short, I may also consider some of the archery and 2WF feats.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Sounds like the perfect way to make a Swashbuckler!

So if one sneak attack die is worth a feat, does this mean a character could select a feat like Extra Sneak Attack? Requires sneak attack ability and may be selected multiple times, each time selected sneak attack damage cannot exceed normal rogue progression (i.e. can't be a 6th level character and have more than +3d6 sneak attack damage).