Slow Combat Problems

[S'mon]

Gah! It takes you 15min to get through a single round of combat? And i thought *we* were slow at D&D3E. I don't think i could stand playing a game where that was the norm (whether due to the mechanics or the players)--spending 12.5-15 minutes sitting around is way too long for a regular occurrence when the party isn't separated. And taking 2.5-3min just to resolve my [already-decided] actions is also way too long. I'd probably get frustrated if i had to run that game, too. I wouldn't want anyone to sit around doing nothing for 15min, even if the party has split up--i'll try and cut back and forth between members of a split-up party on about 15min intervals. But then that also means they get 15min of spotlight time between their 15min breaks. Now, i haven't run D20 System yet (only played it), so i have no idea if this is "normal" for the system, or peculiar to your group. I know that a round of combat sometimes lasted as much as 10-15min Back in the Day with AD&D--but that was a group of 9-15 players (usually with the players controlling about 1.5 characters each, what with NPC allies and all), and only for the big combats. I've routinely DMed through a round with 10 PCs in ~5min.

Oh, and i've yet to play in a D20 System, or run a D&D, combat that only lasted 3 rounds, which probably changes things a bit. 45min is a bit on the long side for my taste, but pretty typical for what actually occurs. It's just the fact that that's 3 rounds for you, rather than 10, that i find surprising--maybe if i was resolving combats in 3 rounds, i wouldn't mind as much that they took 15min each.

In my high-level (11th-14th) D&D campaign the full PC group would be 6-7 PCs + 1-3 Cohorts & NPCs, they might be facing 12-15 monster & NPC opponents, more if the enemy includes mooks. In a turn at least 5-7 minutes is likely to be me the DM resolving the enemy's actions, with each player taking 1-2 minutes over theirs. I think keeping it to 15 minutes is pretty good going!

The way D&D works, I tend to find that larger groups' combats last _fewer_ rounds than small ones, not more. I very rarely see combats go over 4-5 rounds IMC.

 

[Rel]

[*]I use index cards with all stats for monsters (in a nice, very usable format... nothing like a stat block, more like a condensed character sheet), and try to precalculate the effects of its most important abilities (rage, spell-like abilities and such).

I recommend this for similar reasons that others have mentioned. It makes it easy to keep track of initiative order, readied and held actions and that sort of thing. Plus, I can use the card to note the likely actions that the bad guy will take in combat. If it is a spellcaster, I record the spells they have ready and those most likely to be cast in the first few rounds of the battle.

Mostly it is just that I absorb information well through writing. If I say, "The party is going to encounter a Beholder. I'll just mark that page in the MM for reference." the encounter will almost certainly go less smoothly than if I rewrite the stat block on the index card. The mere fact that I've transcribed the information means that I'll be less likely to have to consult it.

Another benefit I've reaped from this method is that if there are monsters or NPC's that recur throughout the campaign, I can just thumb through my stack of pre-written cards and pull it out again. And, once you've built up a large enough library of the cards, it is easy to just whip out something appropriate in the event of a random encounter.

It is also easier to modify them on the fly if you already have recorded the info on them. My group encountered some Ogres in my most recent campaign. Later they ran into some more Ogres that were better trained and equipped. I pulled out the old card and said to myself, "Well, if I give them three levels of Fighter, platemail and these two feats..." And voila, after less than a minute of jotting notes on the card, I had modified the encounter to something about right for the party.

I guess what I'm saying is that transcribing the info onto the cards is a vital part of my session preparation and it speeds up combat not just because I'm better organized but because, through the act of writing the info down by my own hand, I have a better grasp of the foes I'm pitting against the party.

 

[trowizilla]

One thing that really helped me (admitted new player) in speeding up my turns was to have all my character's spells written down on index cards, along with pertinent information (spell level, damage, duration, saves, etc.). That also helped me keep track of what spells I had prepared for the day - just sort out the spells and keep a "hand" of them for use. I didn't have to look anything up once! I think the cleric was doing something similar, and it certainly worked to keep combat rounds under a minute.

 

[Old One]

Index card twist...

I like using 4 x 6 index cards, but I use color-coded cards to make it easier for me...Green for PCs...Blue for NPCs/Cohorts/Familiars...Red for Monsters...White for Items. This makes it easy for me to see who is coming up in the order, particularly in large battles. I also like to write down a few key stats on cards, for the same reasons Rel mentioned.

Announcing who is "on deck" is a great method I saw employed when I gamed with Piratecat...works well with large groups. I am definitely going to institute the "no looking through the PHB until you have selected the spell" rule.

~ Old One

 

[barsoomcore]

I love these threads -- always a trove of good ideas.

The number one combat-speeding process as a DM I can always count on:

Roll the die, look concerned and say, "That's not good."

Gets EVERYONE paying attention, RIGHT NOW. You best believe.

And remember, kids: "When the crap gets too deep, pull on your hip waders and START MAKING IT UP."

 

[shilsen]

The number one combat-speeding process as a DM I can always count on:

Roll the die, look concerned and say, "That's not good."

Gets EVERYONE paying attention, RIGHT NOW. You best believe.

I find an "Oops!" does just as well

 

[Kormydigar]

In the game I play, the group has had problems with combat - it's too slow. Players often find themselves sitting around for at least 10-15 minutes doing nothing. In one game, we have 7 players and in the other we have 4. In both games though (more with the bigger group of course) the combats take way too long. Does anyone have any tips/alternate combat systems/ANYTHING that might help us speed up our combats?



Thanks,
Pugio

I tried the index card trick for a while and it worked ok. Sometimes the number of combatants got a little crazy to manage the cards so I made up a simple excel spreadsheet to track not only initiative but damage by combat round, ect. The sheet is low tech meaning that you can print it out and take it to the game and use it without having to use a laptop during the game. I keep several blank ones like the sample with my game notes for spur of the moment combats. For planned encounters, especially large ones I will fill in the actual combatants and starting hp making a ready made battle sheet. You can track damage and spell duration by round with simple pencil marks. I have found that this works for me. I am happy to share the template. Enjoy

 

[James Heard]

If the problem is in that your large party is being beset by equally large or larger groups of NPCs, one really good investment for the GM is a set of color coded d20s. If you've got 30 "goblin" d20s you can Yahtzee out whether or not a particular goblin hits in one fell swoop. On my cheat sheet for large monster hp totals I've got their hps, +/+ (hit/dam), Condition column (for when they're stunned or something) and damage die (which might be a simple hash or double hash mark if there are only two damage types). Even popping one of these babies out on the fly isn't horrifically time-consuming.

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is simply arranging the seating at the table or living room a bit. If you've got an initiative order that consistently comes out approximately in a certain way it's not very hard to just move people around the table so that you're moving clockwise or counterclockwise most of the time to ask for actions. Using a single roll for initiative for the entire party can make that order completely consistent, which isn't really needed IMO for just a small 7 person party but once you start getting over 15 players it's a really (reallyreallyreally) good idea. Another way to make combats work a bit faster is to roll initiative for the combat...and then immediately call a 10-15 minute break. Let the party figure out what they're going to do ahead of time some, so they're not fumbling around in their books and spilling things in a rush. Then you can REALLY speed up combat, because after a break you can afford to be unconcerned if they're still confused as to what to do. Think of it as a huddle, but I admit that it works best if there's a player who's a 'quarterback' and able to sort of coordinate the group a bit with a touch of real life charisma.

 

[Kormydigar]

I tried the index card trick for a while and it worked ok. Sometimes the number of combatants got a little crazy to manage the cards so I made up a simple excel spreadsheet to track not only initiative but damage by combat round, ect. The sheet is low tech meaning that you can print it out and take it to the game and use it without having to use a laptop during the game. I keep several blank ones like the sample with my game notes for spur of the moment combats. For planned encounters, especially large ones I will fill in the actual combatants and starting hp making a ready made battle sheet. You can track damage and spell duration by round with simple pencil marks. I have found that this works for me. I am happy to share the template. Enjoy

oops I accidentally left a custom sheet in the workbook The fight was a major battle I ran recently with the old Scourge of the Slavelords module. Most of the notes about the combatants refer to the mini I used to represent them making it easy to pick them out on the battlemat- please disregard this part (unless you can use it for something )

 

[Rel]

oops I accidentally left a custom sheet in the workbook The fight was a major battle I ran recently with the old Scourge of the Slavelords module. Most of the notes about the combatants refer to the mini I used to represent them making it easy to pick them out on the battlemat- please disregard this part (unless you can use it for something )

Disregard them?! Disrgard them? How can you disregard Twinkles Amawetto??!!