roguerouge
First Post
How do you give PCs the ability to barter/sell magic items without the dreaded Magic Wall-mart of Thay syndrome occurring? What kind of institutions do they go to?
Small businesses in magic items
- Thread starter roguerouge
- Start date
Doug McCrae
Legend
I don't play it out in detail. The PCs are in Sharn. There is plenty of down-time. The players say "I want to sell X" or "I want to buy X". I say "OK". In fact recently we don't say anything, it's just something the PCs do in down-time.
They had fallen out with House Cannith early in the game and I considered making things harder for them as a result but I figured in a place like Sharn there would be plenty of non-Cannith buyers and sellers.
So I guess I am a victim of the dreaded Wal-Mart of Thay syndrome.
They had fallen out with House Cannith early in the game and I considered making things harder for them as a result but I figured in a place like Sharn there would be plenty of non-Cannith buyers and sellers.
So I guess I am a victim of the dreaded Wal-Mart of Thay syndrome.
Crothian
First Post
The difference I always have is a set inventory. And the struff is never on shelves ready to be looked out. It is all in vaults and secure. The stores don't advertise but the wealthy people know of them and they spread by word of mouth. Many times the PCs will hire a finder and have to pay a surcharge but they find that is the easiest way to get the items fast. Other wise they could talk to ten different merchants but never find the item they are looking for.
Items of healing though the church's deal in. So those are a bit easier to get a hold off if the PCs are religious. Most things they end up being treated as special orders. I've had PCs basically higher a wizard for 14 months straight of making them magical items.
Items of healing though the church's deal in. So those are a bit easier to get a hold off if the PCs are religious. Most things they end up being treated as special orders. I've had PCs basically higher a wizard for 14 months straight of making them magical items.
green slime
First Post
roguerouge said:
The Wall-mart of Thay is dreaded?!?
Nonlethal Force
First Post
I would have to agree with the other posters in theme. Who says Wal-mart Magicshops are dreaded?
My approach is this: If I as the DM have given them the resources through treasure and the like and they want to blow it on an item that is from an approved book and isn't game-breaking, then what do i care? It happens in the downtime, no big deal. The advantage is that if I don't make a big deal out of it, they don't either.
Of course, I also don't play with people who enjoy powergaming. I could see this getting really ugly with those players who are out there using every conceivable avenue of power to ruin the game for everyone else because they have to "win." Fortunately, those kind of people jst aren't interested in my games, because my group seems to be able to avoid giving away satisfaction for "winning," since when one person wins the others all lose. This aside isn't meant to hijack the thread, just to illustrate that Magic item shops may well work fine at one table and not at another. I don't believe there is any inherent "bad-ness" about including Magic shops that can actually equip the players with what they want.
My approach is this: If I as the DM have given them the resources through treasure and the like and they want to blow it on an item that is from an approved book and isn't game-breaking, then what do i care? It happens in the downtime, no big deal. The advantage is that if I don't make a big deal out of it, they don't either.
Of course, I also don't play with people who enjoy powergaming. I could see this getting really ugly with those players who are out there using every conceivable avenue of power to ruin the game for everyone else because they have to "win." Fortunately, those kind of people jst aren't interested in my games, because my group seems to be able to avoid giving away satisfaction for "winning," since when one person wins the others all lose. This aside isn't meant to hijack the thread, just to illustrate that Magic item shops may well work fine at one table and not at another. I don't believe there is any inherent "bad-ness" about including Magic shops that can actually equip the players with what they want.
der_kluge
Adventurer
In my last campaign, there were basically two guys who sold magic items in a roughly 100 square mile area. My PCs (of course), found both of them.
The first was a traveling wizard with an Orc bodyguard.
The wizard had a specific inventory (which I worked up beforehand) in a locked, magically locked chest which he only opened for a fee. In other words, you couldn't browse his stuff unless he knew you were serious about making an acquisitiion.
Secondly, the orc had some spellcasting ability (I never statted him out), but he had a wand of zone of truth. When the PCs wished to make a bargain, the orc would cast zone of truth. The wizard would ask "have the items been identified?" and "Is the item cursed?" and "What does the item identify as?". He would ask whether the item had been identified prior to starting the transaction. It would have been a waste to cast the ZoT only to find out the PCs hadn't yet identified the items. He could, of course identify them for a fee if the PCs needed that done.
Once the ZoT was cast, the PCs could reveal what the items were to the wizard, he would unlock his chest, and the trading and haggling began. He had set prices for all of his items (textbook costs, basically), and would offer 50% market for items purchased.
The second such individual was an elderly elf antique dealer the PCs found in an Elven sea village. Walking through his cluttered store, the layer of dust over all the antiques led one to believe that the antiques were a mere display for other kinds of activities that the merchant dealt with. In the back, the elf (a fairly high level wizard, now retired), had a number of items. He didn't carry large amounts of coin, so he was more interested in trade than in outright purchase of items. Again, I had a set inventory, and costs.
In both cases, I included "Wow" items that the PCs would have wanted badly, but would have been out of their price range. I included items they might really need down the road, and I would usually include a few generic weapons and armor type things, and then usually one really weird sort of thing that I might not hand out normally, or might not show up in a standard loot pile somewhere. Just for fun.
The first was a traveling wizard with an Orc bodyguard.
The wizard had a specific inventory (which I worked up beforehand) in a locked, magically locked chest which he only opened for a fee. In other words, you couldn't browse his stuff unless he knew you were serious about making an acquisitiion.
Secondly, the orc had some spellcasting ability (I never statted him out), but he had a wand of zone of truth. When the PCs wished to make a bargain, the orc would cast zone of truth. The wizard would ask "have the items been identified?" and "Is the item cursed?" and "What does the item identify as?". He would ask whether the item had been identified prior to starting the transaction. It would have been a waste to cast the ZoT only to find out the PCs hadn't yet identified the items. He could, of course identify them for a fee if the PCs needed that done.
Once the ZoT was cast, the PCs could reveal what the items were to the wizard, he would unlock his chest, and the trading and haggling began. He had set prices for all of his items (textbook costs, basically), and would offer 50% market for items purchased.
The second such individual was an elderly elf antique dealer the PCs found in an Elven sea village. Walking through his cluttered store, the layer of dust over all the antiques led one to believe that the antiques were a mere display for other kinds of activities that the merchant dealt with. In the back, the elf (a fairly high level wizard, now retired), had a number of items. He didn't carry large amounts of coin, so he was more interested in trade than in outright purchase of items. Again, I had a set inventory, and costs.
In both cases, I included "Wow" items that the PCs would have wanted badly, but would have been out of their price range. I included items they might really need down the road, and I would usually include a few generic weapons and armor type things, and then usually one really weird sort of thing that I might not hand out normally, or might not show up in a standard loot pile somewhere. Just for fun.
HeapThaumaturgist
First Post
In my games (and I think we do this alot in the game I play in but am not running, now, even), in a large enough city I would assign a Luck check to any particular request, along with a time frame. I.E. "It will take you three days to check your contacts and sellers, and ..." then a roll to see if any particular thing they are looking for is available.
If not, they tend to make heavy use of magical schools, friendly wizards, etc, to make custom items. Takes longer, but eventually gets them what they want. I additionally allow any character to donate the Vital Spark (I.E. XP component) to an item, which encourages in-group crafting (the Fighter can commission a sword and spend his own XP toward it).
I've found that with balance in 3E being situated around an expected level of magical equipment, that it doesn't really pay to be stingy with the "phat lewts". Essentially, the group finds A Magical Treasure. That Magical Treasure is not 'perfectly optimal' for the group, probably useful but maybe not EXACTLY what somebody wants or needs.
If they sell the item, they get half-cost for it. If they sell items to buy Perfectly Optimal items, they're losing half the GP value ... I.E. they can have a not-optimal item (a cool magical sword when the fighter wanted an axe) or they can have HALF VALUE of optimal items ...
And I find that half-value balances whatever additional punch being optimal gives them. I.E. if they have to sell something for half value, and then I jam them up in some way being "realistic" in the Magic Item Shop department, I'm reducing the expected balance (as well as frustrating the players). I might make it a little difficult, but only inasmuch as that ADDS to the fun and the verisimilitude of the game.
If it starts getting unfun for the players, or they're unable to get things they want, or it is impacting the party balance or game balance, then I'll make sure things work out for them.
One thing that I and others have found to be very frustrating is the urge some GMs have to make magic item aquisition a difficult and "realistic" process, to suite their own personal visions of how magic "should" be, etc etc.
--fje
If not, they tend to make heavy use of magical schools, friendly wizards, etc, to make custom items. Takes longer, but eventually gets them what they want. I additionally allow any character to donate the Vital Spark (I.E. XP component) to an item, which encourages in-group crafting (the Fighter can commission a sword and spend his own XP toward it).
I've found that with balance in 3E being situated around an expected level of magical equipment, that it doesn't really pay to be stingy with the "phat lewts". Essentially, the group finds A Magical Treasure. That Magical Treasure is not 'perfectly optimal' for the group, probably useful but maybe not EXACTLY what somebody wants or needs.
If they sell the item, they get half-cost for it. If they sell items to buy Perfectly Optimal items, they're losing half the GP value ... I.E. they can have a not-optimal item (a cool magical sword when the fighter wanted an axe) or they can have HALF VALUE of optimal items ...
And I find that half-value balances whatever additional punch being optimal gives them. I.E. if they have to sell something for half value, and then I jam them up in some way being "realistic" in the Magic Item Shop department, I'm reducing the expected balance (as well as frustrating the players). I might make it a little difficult, but only inasmuch as that ADDS to the fun and the verisimilitude of the game.
If it starts getting unfun for the players, or they're unable to get things they want, or it is impacting the party balance or game balance, then I'll make sure things work out for them.
One thing that I and others have found to be very frustrating is the urge some GMs have to make magic item aquisition a difficult and "realistic" process, to suite their own personal visions of how magic "should" be, etc etc.
--fje
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Even at the village level, you can get holy water and first level spells cast on you. With advance warning, you can get a scroll, assuming you're a member of the faith.
In bigger communities, the local temple will have higher level spells available, as well as scrolls and potions for members of the faith (you'll essentially be buying magic items the clerics made for themselves, at double the cost if you're a worshipper, more otherwise.)
Depending on the environment, there might be someone dealing in second-hand goods that came out of a nearby adventuring site, but their supplies will be very random. In the capital of the Barony of Midwood in my campaign, there's just such a shop (The House of the Transformed Toad, by Clockwork Golem, in fact). So the players can get a potion or three, maybe a wand, maybe a minor magic item. But if they come back a week later, the only things likely to be there are the things they sold themselves (maybe) and the things no one seems to want.
In the big city (Ptolus or Tarsis), more magical items are available, but in each case, there are groups that oversee this trade and limit it for their own reasons.
A player who wants his character to own a given magic item is best off getting the party spellcasters to make it or finding a friendly NPC he can pay to do so, assuming the NPC has nothing better to do, which is a moderately sized assumption.
In bigger communities, the local temple will have higher level spells available, as well as scrolls and potions for members of the faith (you'll essentially be buying magic items the clerics made for themselves, at double the cost if you're a worshipper, more otherwise.)
Depending on the environment, there might be someone dealing in second-hand goods that came out of a nearby adventuring site, but their supplies will be very random. In the capital of the Barony of Midwood in my campaign, there's just such a shop (The House of the Transformed Toad, by Clockwork Golem, in fact). So the players can get a potion or three, maybe a wand, maybe a minor magic item. But if they come back a week later, the only things likely to be there are the things they sold themselves (maybe) and the things no one seems to want.
In the big city (Ptolus or Tarsis), more magical items are available, but in each case, there are groups that oversee this trade and limit it for their own reasons.
A player who wants his character to own a given magic item is best off getting the party spellcasters to make it or finding a friendly NPC he can pay to do so, assuming the NPC has nothing better to do, which is a moderately sized assumption.
Kid Charlemagne
I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
One option I like came out of a previous thread on this subject, and that's the idea of regularly scheduled magical auctions, run by some relatively powerful organization/enterprise - either a business, or a wizard's guild, or in the case of my own world, the magical universities. So it might take a few months to find some of the more major kinds of items, but they can be found.
Minor stuff can be bought any number of places, and I like to have things get correspondingly difficult to find as the value and utility goes up.
Minor stuff can be bought any number of places, and I like to have things get correspondingly difficult to find as the value and utility goes up.
It is done almost entirely off-camera in most of our groups campaigns.
IMC they are somewhat stranded on an ancient, ruined continent leading a group of pilgrim settlers... so no built in magic item Wal-Mart. In fact, they have nobody to trade with or buy from, so what they find is what they get. I did send one guy off with a family heirloom (Social Status in game-play mechanics). I did allow the wild elves to have some shamanistic magic herbal items that are kinda like potions. The PC's wisely made friends with them.
In the other campaign, the DM has pre-conceived notions of magic availability, but bases his campaign in Cormyr. A PC is very $$$ oriented, both in real life and his character. What should be 5 min of adjusting sheets is 60 min of dice rolling and role-playing a transaction. I tend to get very bored when this happens and wish we could just Wal-Mart the whole deal. The DM gets frustrated at "giving" out magic items, we get bored watching the math, and 60 minutes of a once-every-6-week campaign gets burned.
I really like the pre-listed mini vendor idea as an alternative to the Thayan Wal-Mart
IMC they are somewhat stranded on an ancient, ruined continent leading a group of pilgrim settlers... so no built in magic item Wal-Mart. In fact, they have nobody to trade with or buy from, so what they find is what they get. I did send one guy off with a family heirloom (Social Status in game-play mechanics). I did allow the wild elves to have some shamanistic magic herbal items that are kinda like potions. The PC's wisely made friends with them.
In the other campaign, the DM has pre-conceived notions of magic availability, but bases his campaign in Cormyr. A PC is very $$$ oriented, both in real life and his character. What should be 5 min of adjusting sheets is 60 min of dice rolling and role-playing a transaction. I tend to get very bored when this happens and wish we could just Wal-Mart the whole deal. The DM gets frustrated at "giving" out magic items, we get bored watching the math, and 60 minutes of a once-every-6-week campaign gets burned.
I really like the pre-listed mini vendor idea as an alternative to the Thayan Wal-Mart
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