Small Weapons..

[Kristivas]

Did any of you just ignore the weapon changes to size?

When 3.5 came out, we never had another Gnome or Halfling in our game again(except for one Gnomish wizard heh). Halfling rogues have great racial abilities that go well with rogue, but now that their longsword is like a short sword and short sword (which was always a favorite among our halfling rogues) is now the damage of a dagger. I know it makes more sense, but it really did turn everyone off of the small races in my games.

 

[genshou]

Did any of you just ignore the weapon changes to size?

When 3.5 came out, we never had another Gnome or Halfling in our game again(except for one Gnomish wizard heh). Halfling rogues have great racial abilities that go well with rogue, but now that their longsword is like a short sword and short sword (which was always a favorite among our halfling rogues) is now the damage of a dagger. I know it makes more sense, but it really did turn everyone off of the small races in my games.

I simply use the RAW from 3rd Edition. While some of the changes to 3.5 were necessary and good, this is one of the things I HATE. It's oversimplified. But as to the reason no one wants to play a smaller race in your games...

A 3rd Edition Small rogue is only proficient with the dagger and shortsword, a Medium or larger rogue is proficient with the longsword as well. A short sword was like a longsword to a halfling before. Having a smaller damage output is balanced by the fact that smaller races have size bonuses to AC and attacks as well as Hide checks.

 

[Lord Wyrm]

All I have to say is that 1d4 of the short sword is nothing compared to 1-10d6 sneak attack plus enchantments. Ah sneak attack, the great equalizer.

 

[Bront]

I've found that the damage difference is overrated, and the benifits of being small are much more than you might think.

Most of your gear is 1/2 or 1/4 weight, but you get 3/4 normal carrying capacity.
+1 on AC = 5% additional miss chance/5% less chance of confirmed crit
+1 to hit = 5% additional chance to hit/Confirm a crit.
+4 on hide gives them a huge advantage, and means that even non-stealth characters can at least make a decient attempt to hide.

My only complaint is that most small races also have a -2 strength, which is already accounted for in the reduction of damage and carrying, so I think it's redundant.

However, I like how the size thing functions. What I do houserule is that magical weapons and armor will autoresize themselve to one size smaller if wielded by the appropriate person. It makes awarding items a bit simpler, means that they aren't penalized by the availability of items as much, and doesn't realy change anything else as far as cost goes.

 

[Kristivas]

That's what's so frustrating about it, as they already have the -2str anyway. Just to keep going down in damage really stinks. A medium race's damage output is higher, which to me would be another reason not to play one.

 

[CronoDekar]

Really? I actually liked it more as far as small races goes since it gives small creatures more weapon variety (yay for reach weapons!), and because it made weapon proficiency lists simpler. Plus most of them are simple to adjudicate, since the 3.0 versions have 3.5 equivilants (for small creatures, the 3.0 short sword is functionally the same as a 3.5 longsword; same for 3.0 dagger and 3.5 short sword). Crossbow user does lose some damage, but I didn't particularly mind.

Though I wouldn't be up-in-arms if a DM decided that he was going to use 3.0 version weapons

 

[Bront]

That's what's so frustrating about it, as they already have the -2str anyway. Just to keep going down in damage really stinks. A medium race's damage output is higher, which to me would be another reason not to play one.

Actualy, a well made small warrior can be just as deadly, if not more so, simply by his increased chance to hit. Finesse weapons can help a lot with Halflings, as they get the +2 dex as well.

Finessable fighter compairisons: (Ignoring crits)
A: Human L1
Str: 14
Dex: 16
Attack: +5
Rapier: 1D6+2
Average DMG AC 12: 3.575
Average DMG AC 15: 2.75
Average DMG AC 18: 1.925
Feats: Weapon Focus: Rapier, Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise

B: Halfling L1
Str: 12
Dex: 18
Attack: +7
Rapier: 1D4+1
Average DMG AC 12: 2.625
Average DMG AC 15: 2.1
Average DMG AC 18: 1.575
Feats: Weapon Focus: Rapier, Weapon Finesse

Ok, let's try that without the -2 Str

B: Halfling L1
Str: 14
Dex: 18
Attack: +7
Rapier: 1D4+2
Average DMG AC 12: 3.375
Average DMG AC 15: 2.7
Average DMG AC 18: 2.025
Feats: Weapon Focus: Rapier, Weapon Finesse

Ok, so the easy solution if damage is a big deal is to drop the strength penalty (either just flat, or perhaps assign it to something else). However, keep in mind that the races get some extra other bonuses with skills and powers that are also aimed to make up for the disadvantage of being small.

 

[Spatzimaus]

For a Rogue (actually, for anyone) the +1 attack bonus for Small size is far more valuable than the ~1 point of damage you give up by switching to a smaller weapon. The AC and Hide bonuses just make it even better. If you want to complain about the -2 STR for a melee class, that's a separate issue; it's not like being Small gives you a -2 STR penalty (because it's balancing the +2 DEX or +2 CON).

Small races are great; it actually reached a point in my last campaign where more than half the team (4/7) was Small races. If you didn't absolutely need high STR, there was little reason to go Medium.

 

[entr0py]

I simply use the RAW from 3rd Edition. While some of the changes to 3.5 were necessary and good, this is one of the things I HATE.

Amen brother, if it aint broke dont fix it.

The 3.5 weapon system sucks. To many wierdo possibilities. i.e. a halfling-sized long spear has 10 foot reach, but can it be wielded in one hand by a human fighter? and still have 10 foot reach? how is this different from a standard med-sized spear? oh it must be just a little bit longer - yeah right.

 

[Christian]

To many wierdo possibilities. i.e. a halfling-sized long spear has 10 foot reach, but can it be wielded in one hand by a human fighter? and still have 10 foot reach? how is this different from a standard med-sized spear? oh it must be just a little bit longer - yeah right.

Well, according to the 3.5 FAQ, the Small longspear does not give reach to a Medium character. Doesn't that make more sense?