Sneak Attack in a WP/VP system

[CombatWombat51]

I know lots of games use VP/WP, and that lots of people use it as a house rule. I'm considering the idea of using it, but I've stumbled on how to adjucate sneak attacks. They seem like they should go straight to WP, but that's too powerful. I also thought of saying that you can't sneak attack just from flanking. A friend suggested having the bonus sneak attack damage go to VP, and the normal weapon damage go to WP. Anyone do anything about this in their games and/or how does it work in published games?

I guess this is kinda house rules, but it's also asking about core rules (but not D&D core rules)... so I just put it here. Sorry if it's in the wrong place.

 

[hong]

IMO, anything that goes straight to WP is just too powerful for D&D unless you change things drastically. Even doing only normal weapon damage to WP is crazy, given that a high-level rogue could get 4-8 attacks per round, all doing an average of 7-10 points before sneak and energy enchantments.

 

[Agback]

I know lots of games use VP/WP, and that lots of people use it as a house rule. I'm considering the idea of using it, but I've stumbled on how to adjucate sneak attacks.

What I would do would be to give a Rogue a bonus to their critical chance in a 'sneak attack' situation. Say +1 per two levels when flanking and +1 per level when the target is unaware.

Regards,



Agback

 

[Corinth]

Existing games that use VP/WP and Sneak Attack just have the damage from a Sneak Attack work the same as any other form of damage: first to VP, then to WP (with criticals going straight to WP).

It may cause verisimlitude problems, but it's definately playable.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I guess this is kinda house rules, but it's also asking about core rules (but not D&D core rules)... so I just put it here. Sorry if it's in the wrong place.

House Rules is probably best.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Mordane76]

The Grim and Gritty system that was on the Sleeping Imperium turned Sneak Attack into a mechanic called Pounce. A rogue Pouncing received a bonus to hit, and an increase to Critical Threat range, dependent on their level.

 

[Nifft]

It seems to me that one point of WP damage is equivalent to about +1d6 VP -- so long as armor still subtracts from this WP, and it only applied to melee damage.

This would represent a knee to the groin and such -- armor would have a good chance of stopping the blow.

-- N

 

[Bendris Noulg]

A few house rules I use with Aedon's Health & Resilience System (to be OGC when W&V goes OGC).

Health Points: (Constitution x Size Multiple) + BAB

Defense Bonus: Class based, using Defense Rolls instead of passive AC. Armor Check Penalty applies.

Armor Value: Amor (and Natural Armor) are divided in half to represent Resistance and Absorption. Round Resistance up and Absorption down. Resistance lowers Resilience Damage. Absorption lowers Health damage. Both stack with standard Damage Reduction.

Shields: Applies to the Defense roll.

Greater Expertise: Intelligence 15, Removes Expertise limits.

Extra Damage: If flat damage (like Vile Martial Stike), apply to R or H as normal. If extra dice (like Sneak Attack), apply to R as normal, but apply to H as +1 per die.
Note: While its been indicated that Sneak Attack applies to Wounds as normal, I've only found 1 class in SW that gets Sneak Attack. This is the Bounty Hunter Prestige Class, with a total of +2d6. I don't play SW, so other examples may be out there that have higher degrees of Sneak Attack; I leave it to those more knowledgable to correct my error if in error I am.

Edit: Checked my SW book, BH's max out at +5d6, Force Adepts get "force weapon" at +2d8, and Jedi Guardians get a Lightsaber bonus of +5d8. And, looking through this book, I wish I had a SW GM... At any rate, +5d6/+5d8 seems to be the max in the Core Rulebook. Either way, these are far less than 3E's +10d6 Sneak Attack and the Assassin's Death Attack.

Critical Threats: In addition to rolling within the Critical Range of the weapon, the total Attack roll must be 5 or more higher than the roll needed to hit or a Critical isn't threatened. Improved Critical doesn't increase your Threat Range, but lowers the required Attack roll to 3 higher than the roll needed to hit. Keen works as normal (and, obviously, does stack with Improved Critical).

Critical Hits: Only the first die of damage applies to Health, the rest being Resilience as normal (unless the opponent is out of Resilience, in which case death is usually gruesome). Extra damage is applied to Resilience or Health as the attacker chooses.

Healing Magic: Toned down dramatically, since the ratio of healing required is reduced significantly (Resilience is regained by the hour). Can't think of them off the top of my head, but I'll gladly look them up if folks wish.

Harm Magic: Toned down to match Healing (effects Health points unless saved against, in which case the damage is in Resilience... Heal spells work similarly against Undead.).

I think that's it, and I hope it's clear enough to make sense out of.

(I'll be back if I remember more or if there's a question about these...)

 

[Jack Daniel]

I rule that anything not multiplied by a critical hit in the core rules doesn't become automatic WP damage on a crit otherwise. That means that on a critical hit:

• Base damage is WP damage
• All extra damage from the crit multiplier is VP damage
• Any extra damage from sneak attacks, energy weapons, etc, remains VP damage

Attacking with a longsword? On a crit, you deal 1d8 WP and 1d8 VP. Attacking with a +1 flaming battle axe? On a crit, you deal 1d8+1 WP and 2d8+2+1d6 VP.

 

[Kemrain]

The Grim and Gritty system that was on the Sleeping Imperium turned Sneak Attack into a mechanic called Pounce. A rogue Pouncing received a bonus to hit, and an increase to Critical Threat range, dependent on their level.

Beating me to it! Gah!

I'll elaborate, then. Getting +1d6 sneak attack damage becomes a +4 to hit. Each additional d6 adds an alternating +1 to threat range or +1 to hit, meaning 2d6 gets +4 to hit, +1 to threat, and 3d6 gets +5 to hit and +1 to threat. Good system, there. I think with WP and VP this could work, though you might want to throw in a little armor penetration, since the weapon damage wouldn't go far.

- Kemrain the Unofficial Grim and Gritty Spokesbeing.