Sneak attacks around corners

[Kershek]

Let's say combat has been going for a few rounds. The Lidda the Rogue moves around a large 10x10 pillar where the evil fighter can't see her. Next round, she comes around the pillar and attacks him. For argument's sake, the opponent wasn't holding his action or was attacking another party member. Does she catch him flat-footed and get a sneak attack, since she could have come around either corner of the pillar? Or does she need to wait a round and hide before doing it? Or does she never get sneak attack in this situation?

Here are my opinions on the rules, but I would like them validated. She would get opposed hide and move silently checks when she moves to attack. If she doesn't wait one round to hide, her hide check would be at -20 (Song & Silence rule). Her move silently would be at -5 because she's performing a full move to get to him (PHB). If the evil fighter makes either of these checks, it's not a sneak attack and he's not flat footed.

 

[mikebr99]

Let's say combat has been going for a few rounds. The Lidda the Rogue moves around a large 10x10 pillar where the evil fighter can't see her. Next round, she comes around the pillar and attacks him. For argument's sake, the opponent wasn't holding his action or was attacking another party member. Does she catch him flat-footed and get a sneak attack, since she could have come around either corner of the pillar? Or does she need to wait a round and hide before doing it? Or does she never get sneak attack in this situation?

Here are my opinions on the rules, but I would like them validated. She would get opposed hide and move silently checks when she moves to attack. If she doesn't wait one round to hide, her hide check would be at -20 (Song & Silence rule). Her move silently would be at -5 because she's performing a full move to get to him (PHB). If the evil fighter makes either of these checks, it's not a sneak attack and he's not flat footed.

What is the -20 for? Is she trying to shoot while staying hidden?

I would just require a normal hide check and a move silently check with a bonus because of the combat noise.

 

[Kershek]

Re: Re: Sneak attacks around corners

What is the -20 for? Is she trying to shoot while staying hidden?

I'm going off of memory (IDHTBIFOM), but I thought that if you don't hide for a round after attacking you get a -20 to your hide check if you attack again. I could be wrong.

 

[hong]

If the encounter is still going on (ie you're still counting rounds), the bad guy isn't flat-footed. In fact, I don't think I'd let Lidda sneak attack at all in this situation. The bad guy knows where she is; she's behind that pillar. Attacking from behind the pillar isn't particularly sneaky, no matter how you slice and dice it.

Now if Lidda makes her Hide and Move Silently checks to move to a different location, and then attacks, she would get to sneak attack. But that's slightly different.

 

[Kershek]

If the encounter is still going on (ie you're still counting rounds), the bad guy isn't flat-footed. In fact, I don't think I'd let Lidda sneak attack at all in this situation. The bad guy knows where she is; she's behind that pillar. Attacking from behind the pillar isn't particularly sneaky, no matter how you slice and dice it.

Now if Lidda makes her Hide and Move Silently checks to move to a different location, and then attacks, she would get to sneak attack. But that's slightly different.

The main reasoning for the sneak attack is the fact that the opponent doesn't know which side of the pillar she will spring from. You still don't think she should get it?

 

[hong]

The main reasoning for the sneak attack is the fact that the opponent doesn't know which side of the pillar she will spring from. You still don't think she should get it?

Only in a Warner Bros cartoon would the bad guy go chasing the wabbit round and round the pillar, only to get whacked from behind. If the bad guy just stands back, I don't see how he could be caught.

 

[Mark Chance]

Well...

Is the rogue's target flat-footed? No. Combat has already started and the target has acted. Is the rogue's target flanked? Possibly, but it's hard to tell from the initial scenario. If the target is flanked by the rogue, then the rogue gets a sneak attack regardless of the results of any Hide or Move Silently checks.

The rule for sneak attacks is simple: Is the target flat-footed? Is the target flanked by the rogue? If the answer to either is "yes," then the rogue's attacks are sneak attacks.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

Re: Well...

Is the rogue's target flat-footed? No. Combat has already started and the target has acted. Is the rogue's target flanked? Possibly, but it's hard to tell from the initial scenario. If the target is flanked by the rogue, then the rogue gets a sneak attack regardless of the results of any Hide or Move Silently checks.

The rule for sneak attacks is simple: Is the target flat-footed? Is the target flanked by the rogue? If the answer to either is "yes," then the rogue's attacks are sneak attacks.

It's nitpicking, but...

The rules for sneak attack are actually: Is the target denied his Dex bonus to AC? Is the target flanked by the rogue? Yes to either of these question allows the rogue to sneak attack.

Being flatfooted falls in with "no Dex bonus". But there are other circumstances where it also applies:

If the target is grappled...
If the target is pinned...
If the target is stunning, cowering or off balance...
If the target is climbing...
If the target is running...
Or if the attacker is invisible...

All of these situations cause the target to lose his Dex bonus to AC against the attacker.

 

[Kershek]

One of the reasons for the question was that I was trying to think of ways that a rogue could get an advantage in a 'fight club' arena setting.

 

[mikebr99]

The Rogue is behind a pillar and goes into hiding before coming around to attack... This is an approiate use of the hide skill. The target doesn't know where or when the Rogue is going to come from.

Now if the pillar wasn't big enough to totally conceal her while she hides, then she would need some levels in the Shadowdancer (or be epic) to accomplish this.