Sneak Peak of Realm Works on the Web!

Lone Wolf Development makes the popular Hero Lab character generation software, and is also the creator of Realm Works, a campaign management suite. They've sent along an update and preview of the latter in video format, which you can see below. "Brought to you by the creators of Hero Lab®, Realm Works is the tool every Game Master has dreamed about for managing campaigns. Spend less time preparing, more time creating, and focus on sharing the story with your players! Built by a team of experienced GMs, Realm Works can be used with any game system and allows you to create and manipulate your world like never before."

Here's the post from Lone Wolf's Liz:
As more roleplaying gamers discover and explore Realm Works, the positive reviews continue to pour in! But what does the future hold for Realm Works? Today, GMs and players can explore worlds and stories from their laptop or desktop PCs. Soon, worlds created and run within Realm Works will be available through the web!

Check out a behind-the-scenes look at the web version of Realm Works with Joe, one of the developers. He provides a peek at a few of the features we already have in place, including content reveal, basic navigation, user notes, and more! He’ll also show off how Realm Works will look on your tablet. Yes, your campaign will literally be at your fingertips!

[video=youtube;Vmfq8UR4WCI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmfq8UR4WCI[/video]

 

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hollowheel

First Post
I've owned Realmworks for awhile now and while I love many things about the program, I've stopped using it. My central concern is there is no easy way to get your content out of the program once it's in other than laboriously copying and pasting. You cannot print and you can not export.

If/when these features are added I'll likely go back. Right now I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wants it for archival purposes in addition to in-play use.
 

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Alarian

First Post
I used The Keep for a while to run a campaign a few years back. If anyone is interested in seeing what I campaign might look like with it, you can check out my website and take a look at my old campaign. It's obviously a much stripped down version of Realm Works but at the time I considered it the best thing out there. It had a publish to web feature that allowed you to keep GM only stuff from being published. Here is the link to it:

http://portalkeepersofgrayrock.com/Tarantis/City-of-Tarantis.html

That said, I'm also a backer of the Realms Work Kickstarter and while I haven't had time to play around with it yet (darn real world obligations getting in the way of my gamin), I'm really excited to start playing with it. I've most likely wasted my free six months as last I heard they started everyone's time back in November.
 

LWDLiz

First Post
I've owned Realmworks for awhile now and while I love many things about the program, I've stopped using it. My central concern is there is no easy way to get your content out of the program once it's in other than laboriously copying and pasting. You cannot print and you can not export.


If/when these features are added I'll likely go back. Right now I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wants it for archival purposes in addition to in-play use.


Printing is on our to-do list. We actually surveyed our users recently to better gauge what capabilities were most important to them, including printing. I would encourage you to take a look at all the results we shared, but I've quoted the specifics about printing below:

Realm Works Feature Survey said:
The desire for printing is a common request on our forums. However, survey results put printing squarely in the middle of the list. The reason for this is that the results for printing were even more widely split than for calendars, with users typically either feeling printing is critical or of negligible importance. The development team is currently looking for possible ways to offer a simpler, more lightweight printing capability that might be sufficient for most needs. We’re not sure if we can figure something out that will be workable, but we also understand that this capability is very important to a meaningful number of users, so we’re seeking a compromise.
 

hollowheel

First Post
Printing is on our to-do list. We actually surveyed our users recently to better gauge what capabilities were most important to them, including printing. I would encourage you to take a look at all the results we shared, but I've quoted the specifics about printing below:

Thanks for the reply, Liz. I actually took and followed the results of the survey. However, since print/export isn't one of the main priorities, and since the dev staff has commented several times that it isn't an easy fix, I'm not expecting it anytime soon. When/if it is implemented, I'll likely come back, and start recommending it to friends again. Good luck, and thanks for helping keep the community informed.
 

Feeroper

Explorer
Im extremely interested in this software for homebrew campaign archival and for tracking ongoing campaigns in said world. The catch for me is that I would have no use for the program in game while playing as we don't have computers at the table, and most of my players wouldn't be willing to pay for the player version or even use the free online access when it is going.

Is this program good for managing an ongoing campaign world, keeping track of big histories and setting info, and is it worth the price if you aren't going to use it during play, or is the program geared to be most useful during play?

Thanks.
 

hollowheel

First Post
Im extremely interested in this software for homebrew campaign archival and for tracking ongoing campaigns in said world. The catch for me is that I would have no use for the program in game while playing as we don't have computers at the table, and most of my players wouldn't be willing to pay for the player version or even use the free online access when it is going.

Is this program good for managing an ongoing campaign world, keeping track of big histories and setting info, and is it worth the price if you aren't going to use it during play, or is the program geared to be most useful during play?

Thanks.

I found it excellent for managing a campaign and my notes. I wouldn't say players need a computer at the table, but the gamemaster will if he wants access to his notes.
 
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LWDLiz

First Post
Im extremely interested in this software for homebrew campaign archival and for tracking ongoing campaigns in said world. The catch for me is that I would have no use for the program in game while playing as we don't have computers at the table, and most of my players wouldn't be willing to pay for the player version or even use the free online access when it is going.

Is this program good for managing an ongoing campaign world, keeping track of big histories and setting info, and is it worth the price if you aren't going to use it during play, or is the program geared to be most useful during play?

Thanks.

Ir's great for managing an ongoing campaign world, keeping track of big histories and setting info! Currently, if you want your notes at the table, you will need to have Realm Works (in the form of a computer), at the table.
 

I love HeroLab, and use it constantly.

Based on that and the tantalizing videos about RealmWorks, I bought it about a year ago. I was excited about it at first, but then made the decision to stop using it when I realized that there was no way for me to pull my data back out of the program. Without printing capability or the ability to run SQL queries on the database, I just can't justify the work and effort it will take to put a lot of content into it. I have been burned too many times by software companies going out of business or abandoning a product and having my data locked up.

Lone Wolf says that if they ever go out of business they will make sure to unlock the data for everyone, but I've been burned by promises like that, too. When companies go out of business - or abandon products - they rarely take the time to do a lot of work for their existing customers if they can't earn money on it. Talk is cheap.

With this particular product they have also made a lot of promises regarding features (starting with the Kickstarter) that still haven't been implemented, and probably won't be anytime in the near future. After their survey they indicated that printing was not going to be their priority, so when they say it's "on their list" there is a good chance that they mean "sometime in the next few years" (judging by the extreme slowness of their feature development in general).

I don't know the folks there, but as a former software developer I have a strong suspicion that they have bitten off more than they can chew. They have moved at a snail's pace when it comes to introducing features they promised long ago, which tells me they either don't have enough programmers working on the product, or those folks are splitting their time between RealmWorks and HeroLab. They keep promising that their new "market" will open up soon, and are now talking more about a website version, but they haven't even brought the existing paid version up to speed yet. I don't know if that reflects monetary desperation or a lack of business focus, but it's not a good sign.

Don't get me wrong - I like their idea for the software and a lot of the features in it, and would love to see the product get better. Right now, though, it's still like something that is in the beta phase of development, and I don't see the commitment of time being put into it to fix the existing issues and give it the basic functionality that has been promised all along. That's just not a professional way to do things. The money I spent on the product is essentially lost money (it's my biggest software purchase regret in at least a decade), so I'm sure not going to spend more to keep it connected to their servers on the off chance that it will be useful to me in a couple of years.

I wish them luck, and would return to using the product if they ever get it up to speed, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. They seem like a nice group of people with good ideas, but that doesn't mean they are good businesspeople.

I'm not posting this to be mean. I just think that potential customers need to be aware of what they are and aren't getting, and need to understand that "upcoming features" might mean "coming in a few years."
 
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Printing is on our to-do list.

Liz, let's be honest. Is it on your to-do list for this year? Next year? The year after that?

With your programmers working on the market and the web version, are they really going to have time to devote to enabling printing anytime soon?

How many programmers work on RealmWorks? Do they have to split their time between that and HeroLab? The features mentioned long ago are being released at a snail's pace. Why is that?
 

LWDLiz

First Post
<Text above>

Hi pickin_grinnin (and others). Rob, the Realm Works Lead Developer, asked me to post the response below, as he hasn’t had time to create an EN World account at this time. You make many assertions about Realm Works and Lone Wolf Development as a company, and I hope that you take the time to read through all of Rob’s post. While it’s unlikely that Rob will take the time to post again (as he’s working on Realm Works), I’ll try to answer any follow-up questions you may have. You’re also welcome to PM me directly.

-----
Rob:
I asked Liz to post this on my behalf, and hopefully she can fill in any cracks I may have overlooked. You’ve made a lot of claims and asked a few questions, so I’m going to take the time to respond to them as best I can. My priority is on product development, so I likely won’t be commenting further on this. I hope this proves sufficient.

You assert that you love Hero Lab. However, based on the rest of your assessment of Realm Works, I think it’s safe to say that you didn’t use Hero Lab in the early years. If you had, you almost certainly would have portrayed it the same way you now portray Realm Works. That’s because the two products have a very similar evolutionary path. And that evolution is the only reason that Hero Lab is as powerful and flexible as it is today. The resulting power and flexibility is the only way Hero Lab could possibly accommodate all the craziness of Pathfinder, Shadowrun, and a bunch of other incredibly complex game systems. Those same attributes are cornerstones of Realm Works.

Let’s first look at Hero Lab a bit further to help me explain. How would someone go about creating something like Hero Lab? They’d have to consider all the different ways in which RPGs are designed and how they operate. They’d have to distill out hundreds of different approaches to various aspects of games, then they’d have to figure out how to accommodate those different approaches in virtually any combination a game designer can think up. They’d also have to anticipate how to incorporate new approaches that nobody has thought up yet so that the product can be extended and they can be woven in. Once they worked through all that, they’d need to actually implement it all. That’s a huge undertaking.

The reality is that Hero Lab is essentially a mammoth iceberg. The part you see and interact with is the tiny portion above the surface. Beneath the surface, there is an incredibly complex and versatile body of code that makes it all possible. Yet nobody ever sees the part of the iceberg that’s under the waves. That’s why (a) numerous gamers naively proclaim “it should be easy” to write a decent character creation tool, (b) a long list of people have tried to develop character creation tools over the years, and (c) only a scant few have produced something even remotely worthwhile. The “Titanic” analogy applies perfectly here.

So let’s look at Realm Works now. It’s been architected and designed – and substantially written – by the same person who architected and designed Hero Lab (me). So the same approach has been taken. However, the complexity is at least another order of magnitude greater. We’re no longer looking simply at how game designers create RPGs. We’re now looking at how GMs prepare for games and gaming groups actually play games. There are as many different ways of doing that as there are gamers. Yet there are a vast number of common elements across large cross-sections of gamers, so we’ve distilled many of those out and modeled them effectively within Realm Works.

The gotcha is that the complexity is huge, and we’re building Realm Works for the long run. You can’t build a skyscraper on the foundation for a small house. As we extend the capabilities of Realm Works, we have to put extensive foundation work in place to support not just what we’re adding today, but everything we’re envisioning for the future. From the outside, it may look like we’re making slower progress than you think we should. The reality is that, in addition to the features you see within the product, we’re also building the iceberg beneath the surface – the part you don’t see. The further along we get, the more robust and extensive the iceberg beneath the waves becomes, and we begin to make faster headway on the pieces above the surface that users see. That’s what happened with Hero Lab and that’s starting to occur with Realm Works. Once the Content Market and web access both come online in the upcoming months, we’ll be in great shape and begin to see significantly faster progress on the pieces above the surface.

As for the development team and effort being put in, here are the basics. We have a dedicated team on Realm Works. The Hero Lab team is completely separate and even uses a completely different programming language. The problem is that our team on Realm Works is only a few strong. Why is that? Because we have to operate within our means, and developers are expensive. For some perspective, the recent Kickstarter attempt by Trapdoor Technologies sought a HALF-MILLION dollars for SIX MONTHS. If we had that level of funding for Realm Works, we would be making incredible progress. Alas, this is the tabletop gaming industry, and we’re entirely self-funded, so we make steady headway with the resources available. Are we going fast enough to satisfy everyone? Nope. But, at this point, I believe we’re far enough ahead of anyone else in terms of the technology we’ve developed that it will require someone investing significant resources to catch-up and overtake us.

You’ve made it clear that printing is a deal-breaker feature for you. You’ve been heard. In fact, all the clamor on our forums for various features was a key reason we undertook the user survey that we just completed. We wanted to know just how important each feature was to what portion of the user base. Unfortunately for your interests, our users collectively placed printing smack dab in the middle, with almost a dozen major capabilities being considered more important than printing. So we’re focusing on the things that our users want most. I’m sorry if you consider that poor business on our part, but I think anyone looking at this objectively would agree with our approach.

I understand that you won’t use Realm Works until printing is added because you don’t trust us. Lone Wolf Development has been in business for more than 20 years now, and we’ve been creating software tools for tabletop gamers for 17 of those years. We’ve fostered a great deal of trust with tens of thousands of gamers during that period. If you choose not to trust us due to your experience with other companies, you’re entitled to that approach. However, there are plenty of other gamers out there that don’t share that opinion.

Now, I need to respond to some of your assertions about Realm Works and the company, as you’ve cast many aspersions towards both throughout your post. Unfortunately, you make references without any details, so I’m unable to challenge any of them concretely. However, I will do my best to interpret your comments and respond accordingly…


  1. You said we “haven’t brought the existing paid version up to speed yet”. I don’t know what you mean by that without any details, so unfortunately, I cannot respond.
  2. Then you assert it’s due to either “monetary desperation” or “lack of business focus”. As I outlined above, we operate within our means and the just-completed user survey gives us absolute certainty where we should be focusing our priorities. I’m not sure how you’re reaching your conclusions.
  3. You then go on to say you “don't see the commitment of time being put into it to fix the existing issues”. We fix bugs on a steady basis – most recently last Friday – and the product is pretty darn stable and robust at this point. Are there existing issues that you’re still encountering? If so, we have a bug reporting system in place for users to report issues so that we can respond as quickly as possible.
  4. And then you say we don’t give Realm Works “the basic functionality that has been promised all along”. If you’re talking about the web-based access and the Content Market, I indicated above that it looks like those should be available in the months ahead. If you’re referring to printing, I believe I’ve addressed why it’s important to us to focus on the features that our users have collectively said are most important.
  5. And you finally call us “not professional” and “not good businesspeople”. I may be wrong here, but I believe there are numerous ENWorld users who would disagree with the former claim based on their dealings with us over the years. For the latter, I would argue that doing the survey and focusing on what users want the most is a core hallmark of “good businesspeople”.

As we demonstrated with Hero Lab, there’s a cohesive vision, and we’re staying the course to realize it. If some gamers want to wait until everything is perfect and continue using (in our and others’ opinions) less optimal approaches, they are welcome to do so. For those GMs who want to simplify a lot of their preparation efforts and streamline game play today, Realm Works is already a significant improvement over the alternatives – especially the traditional pen-and-paper or disjointed notes in assorted Word documents approaches. And Realm Works continues to get better with every new release. The only requirement is that users need an electronic device at the table, since we don’t yet support printing.

I hope this answers your questions and, for others reading, addresses the various assertions you’ve made about Realm Works and the company. Thank you to everyone for taking the time to read all the way through this.
 
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