Sniper scopes - how to model?

[RangerWickett]

I'm trying to work up rules for a game in the Halo universe. In this universe, running around in close combat while shooting and zooming with a scope is considered an excellent tactic.

I'm basically using d20 Modern rules, but armor adds DR instead of Defense. I'm instituting a called shot rule to let you bypass armor (-4 to your attack to half the DR by going for a slightly vulnerable spot, or -8 to go for the head or other place with no armor). With that in mind, how would you suggest I handle sniper scopes?

The d20 Modern rule says you multiply your range increment by 1.5, and it takes an attack action to acquire your target. This does not make it any easier to shoot around cover, nor does it factor in that someone who is close to you is much harder to aim at while you're zooming, or that people could sneak up on you more easily if you're peering intently through a scope. I don't like the d20 Modern rules for this.

Halo scopes come in x2 and x10 versions.

 

[RangerWickett]

Okay, I want to capture the fact that folks can sneak up on you while zooming, so maybe make it take some time to toggle between zoom levels. While zoomed at 2x, you have to pick a 90-degree firing arc, and you treat anything outside that arc as invisible. While zoomed at 10x, you pick a 30-degree firing arc.

Should zooming just give you a bonus to attack? I mean, you're basically changing "hitting a person" into "hitting the broad side of a barn." What's the drawback, then? Should you suffer some penalty based on your foe's movement?

 

[ogre]

What I did with scopes was have them simply lessen the apparent distance of the target, and thus the range penalties to hit.. Still, players sigh when they ask "what bonus do I get to hit with my high tech scope" and I tell them none, but your range penalties are less.
Anyway, what I do is simply calculate the range according to the multiplier of the scope. So, if you have a x2 scope, something 400 feet away, appears 2x closer, or 200 feet away. Then you use the range increment of the weapon and the standard -2 per increment up to 200 feet. So if it had a 100 foot range increment he would be -4 total to hit at 400 feet with a x2 scope, instead of a -8 without the scope.
With a x10 scope the target would appear 10x closer or only 40 feet away, and with the same range increment weapon at no penalty to hit.
Still, the attacker needs to spend that attack action to acquire the target.

To address your 'sneak up on you when scoping aspect' you could simply apply a penalty to the shooters spot check equal to the zoom multiplier, so in your case a -2 or -10 when using a x2 or x10 zoom respectively. Simple, anyway. Consiquently, I have binocs work like scopes, which has a spot check penalty based on the apparent distance, not actual, though your right, the arc would be narrow due to being zoomed in so far.
My 2 pence.

 

[Vigilance]

You could model scopes after the Far Shot and Dead Aim feats, allowing a character to gain the benefits of those feats even if doesnt meet the prerequisites.

So 2x magnification increases the range increment by 1.5 (doubled if the character actually has the Far Shot feat) and 10x magnification grants a +2 bonus to hit (+4 if the character actually has the Dead Aim feat).

And for being snuck up on, you could require a Concentration check (equal to any Stealth DC) as a prerequisite to *allowing* a Listen check (with the same DC) since the sniper's attention will be so focused on his target (this is one reason why real world snipers have spotters).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I wouldn't allow a Spot check, and I'd allow a Listen check at a -5 penalty (you're distracted).

This does not make it any easier to shoot around cover, nor does it factor in that someone who is close to you is much harder to aim at while you're zooming

For the first, it does. Anything that increases your range increment decreases attack penalties. You're more likely to hit. Just flavor text it. As for the latter, it's true it's a weakeness in Modern rules. I suppose you could give scopes a "minimum range".

 

[genshou]

I think you're asking about telescopic scopes, which are quite different than the scopes listed in the d20 Modern core rulebook. Notes from the Bunker has a good variant rule for scopes with different magnification. I've attached the pdf of that article to this post.

For regular scopes, the d20 Modern book has rules that suffice. Using a scope makes firing at range easier; it does not make the cover around the target somehow disappear. Only training can help you avoid hitting the wall he's ducking behind, or to have the reflexes to fire when he is popping up to shoot at you.

 

[andrew_kenrick]

You could model scopes after the Far Shot and Dead Aim feats, allowing a character to gain the benefits of those feats even if doesnt meet the prerequisites.

This is how I've modelled them in the past, giving the character a "virtual" feat of sorts.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

Okay, I want to capture the fact that folks can sneak up on you while zooming, so maybe make it take some time to toggle between zoom levels. While zoomed at 2x, you have to pick a 90-degree firing arc, and you treat anything outside that arc as invisible. While zoomed at 10x, you pick a 30-degree firing arc.

Should zooming just give you a bonus to attack? I mean, you're basically changing "hitting a person" into "hitting the broad side of a barn." What's the drawback, then? Should you suffer some penalty based on your foe's movement?

I like the 90 and 30 degree arcs of visibility. Essentially, when one is focusing their attention through a scope, the rest of the world goes away. I also like the suggestion ogre makes in post #3: that range penalties should be reduced by a factor corresponding to the power of the scope in question. This does not, however, resolve the question of those targets who choose to keep moving about while you're trying to kill them. Many of them are probably flat-footed, given that they probably are not aware of your tracking them through the scope. All the same, if they switch speed/direction frequently, it may be difficult to aquire them in your sights. This problem grows more significant the higher the magnification. Perhaps a system which multiplies the power of the scope used by the speed of the target and the frequency of course changes. I'll have to ponder...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Many of them are probably flat-footed, given that they probably are not aware of your tracking them through the scope. All the same, if they switch speed/direction frequently, it may be difficult to aquire them in your sights.

If they're running zig zag patterns, it seems to me they're using their class bonus to Defense.

 

[argo]

I'm trying to work up rules for a game in the Halo universe. In this universe, running around in close combat while shooting and zooming with a scope is considered an excellent tactic.

Speaking as someone who has played quite a bit of Halo <- loves dual SMG's

If I were to try to model Halo combat using d20 rules I would say that the people "running around in close combat while shooting and zooming" are the ones who are making normal attack rolls/using the double tap/burst fire feats. They are taking the time to shoulder their rifle, sight down the barrel, pick out a target and fire. The use of the "scope" to "zoom" in is flavor text for trying to focus on one target. Meanwhile the people running around in close combat while shooting and not zooming are the ones using the autofire rules. They are simply trying to group their shots in a box centered on your sternum/shoulders and hooping to put enough lead downrange that you drop before they do.

The only people to actually be using d20 rules/equipment designed for "sniping" are the ones who stop moving, crouch and try to, well, snipe you from accross the map.