Sniping Wizard and encounter powers

[Ahglock]

5 minutes rest required, no matter what. If you have a second encounter after 3 minutes, for instance, you don't get the benefits of the short rest, and you're still out of any encounter powers you used in the prior fight.

Ah well I think I got a house rule then. 5 minutes is a long time, i can accept it as some kind of balance on abuse of abilities outside of encounters, but really you are in a dungeon how often does it take 5 minutes for other parts of the dungeon to respond. They are not the police responding form 10 miles away after they get a call, there two rooms away wondering what all the screaming was about.

 

[Wiman]

In my opinion if other monsters / combatents respond prior to 5 minutes ellapsing then the original encounter really didn't end.

I agree with Ahglock so far as realism is concerned, but given the rules set one will either have to house rule shorter rests...in my opinion an easy way to allow players a way to break systems. OR DM in a more gamist interest and allow the five minutes to pass if the players need it and have taken some percautions to prevent being attacked directly afterwards (Clearing a room and locking a door for example). As far as monsters responding from two rooms away - if the combat made that much of a statement what kept these guys from arriving mid combat? If my friends were in trouble I would come running. The answer to that is of course the DM didn't want a TPK because she/he planned two seperate encounters...not one slaughter.

 

[Incenjucar]

Ah well I think I got a house rule then. 5 minutes is a long time, i can accept it as some kind of balance on abuse of abilities outside of encounters, but really you are in a dungeon how often does it take 5 minutes for other parts of the dungeon to respond. They are not the police responding form 10 miles away after they get a call, there two rooms away wondering what all the screaming was about.

That's actually the POINT of the five minute wait.

Encounters are supposed to be able to escalate.

I mean really it sounds like you're trying to exploit AI here and that's not how PnP games work.

 

[Jeph]

Guys, a round in 4e is not six seconds.

A round in 4e is abstract. It is a pacing mechanic to ensure that everyone has about an equal opportunity to do cool and useful stuff.

Encounters represent somewhere around 5 minutes of fighting.

You cannot measure out-of-encounter time in rounds.

 

[Incenjucar]

Indeed, and an encounter can be one round or 50 rounds, and depending on what happens the DM can still assume five minutes.

It's going to be interesting trying to teach people abstraction.

 

[Ahglock]

That's actually the POINT of the five minute wait.

Encounters are supposed to be able to escalate.

I mean really it sounds like you're trying to exploit AI here and that's not how PnP games work.

Yes I am trying to exploit an AI.

And yes encounters that escalate mid encounter are cool and are still the same encounter. But if you wipe an encounter quickly and have a little bit of time to reset its a new encounter IMO. So you should not have to wait 5 minutes in order to set up another sniper shot.

 

[Incenjucar]

Yeah.

I wouldn't use that house rule.

The five minute rest is there for a reason and I support the reasoning behind it.

 

[Mort_Q]

As a DM I would say 5 minutes, or whenever the pace-of-plot requires it. If the player is having his PC get all tricksy, then the NPCs will get equally tricksy.

 

[Sadrik]

I think this is a weak spot in the rules. It is not a bad rule or an abusive rule it just seems obtuse. The idea that after a fight the party tries to hide, lock themselves away, or generally retreat until they power up again can create a very gamey feel.

I already have a potential house rule brew'n on this. Have no idea the numbers or even if it is needed yet but something like this:
You get X power points per day. (Maybe 10 + (5*EncounterPowersKnown)
spend 1 for an at will
spend 5 for an encounter.
Dailies work the same.

In this way, you get rid of the 5 minute rest rule and it will allow a player to use two of the same encounter power in the same encounter. It will also give a class a way to run out of at wills which they cannot do now.

 

[Sadrik]

Indeed, and an encounter can be one round or 50 rounds, and depending on what happens the DM can still assume five minutes.

It's going to be interesting trying to teach people abstraction.

So, between using an encounter power it is:
current encounter length + 5 minutes NOT
simply 5 minutes after you use the power

So in the case of the wizard who shoots and encounter power then teleports to his office has a cup of tea and then comes back, if the encounter is not over yet he still cannot recharge his spells.

And yes this is not just a, "Hey lets break the AI" type of question. These are fundamentally going to happen in game--> and by the look of it a lot. The players will always be looking for ways to recover their encounter powers. In most situations it will not be an issue, in others it will. What are those issue areas?