So...How are Sales of 4E Product?

[Brown Jenkin]

On the various points.

The reason some 3e supporters want to see bad sales figures for 4e is the same reason some 4e supporters want to make sure 4e is considered an amazing success, it is all part of the edition wars.

WotC has made missleading statements such as 4e was not being worked on when it was, and that the DDI would be ready when they knew it wouldn't. While they have never lied, I have found that in the last few years all their statements need to be parsed and strict literal meanings need to be read into them because more often than not the impression they give is not the same as the literal reading.

As for the success of 4e it cannot be interpreted from initial 4e book sales alone. Hasbro expects a certain profit margin and anything below that margin is not acceptable even if it still a profit and not a loss. Look at DDM, it was still making a profit but sales were declining over a period of 2 years after its initial success and was canceled and reworked into a different product. In addition to long term success which can't be derived from 4 months of sales the intial profit margins were probably based on DDI sales as well. And when DDI sales are combined with 4e book sales for this year, those are the profit margins which Hasbro will base success or failure decisions on. So while 4e book sales could be wonderful, if DDI fails the book sales numbers may not be high enough alone to qualify 4e a success even if they are 50% bigger than 3e book sales.

 

[Fifth Element]

Simple really: I believe WotC makes it a habit of lying, embellishing facts or selecting them to suit their marketing needs. Not that I blame them as a corporation for doing so, mind you. It's just that I'm done being naive about it.

I'd say your first sentence here is pretty naive.

 

[The Little Raven]

The reason some 3e supporters want to see bad sales figures for 4e is the same reason some 4e supporters want to make sure 4e is considered an amazing success, it is all part of the edition wars.

Well, personally, my reasons for wanting 4e to be an amazing success has nothing to do with edition wars and everything to do with continued support for the game specifically as well as growth for the industry and community as a whole.

WotC has made missleading statements such as 4e was not being worked on when it was

As I recall, they said they were not working on a 4th Edition that would require the purchase of miniatures to play. If you have a direct source that has a direct denial of the development of a 4th edition at all, I'd like to see it.

that the DDI would be ready when they knew it wouldn't.

Do you have a direct source for this? We knew, officially at least, a month in advance of the 4th edition launch that the DDI would not be ready, as Bill's Ampersand article spelled out.

While they have never lied, I have found that in the last few years all their statements need to be parsed and strict literal meanings need to be read into them because more often than not the impression they give is not the same as the literal reading.

Personally, I've found people take their words and apply their own personal belief about impressions and implied meanings, usually casting it all in the most negative light possible, which is what causes all of the problems.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Simple really: I believe WotC makes it a habit of lying, embellishing facts or selecting them to suit their marketing needs. Not that I blame them as a corporation for doing so, mind you. It's just that I'm done being naive about it.

Considering the quote you had included, it seems that you are happy to label Scott Rouse and Mike Mearls liars - and they are active members of the community here.

That's against the rules, and as I can only see this as a deliberate flouting of Rel's earlier warning, you are banned for 3 days.

 

[Jack99]

WotC has made missleading statements such as 4e was not being worked on when it was, and that the DDI would be ready when they knew it wouldn't. While they have never lied, I have found that in the last few years all their statements need to be parsed and strict literal meanings need to be read into them because more often than not the impression they give is not the same as the literal reading.

As Cadfan hinted, this has been shot down about 1823 times during the last year. There has not been one single proof of it, besides a few people saying it again and again. If you have some proof, please post it. Repeating it will not make it any more true. Regarding the DDI, are you really serious? Every time a company fails to meet a deadline, do you really consider any previous statement regarding said deadline a misleading statement? I agree that it sucks that they have failed to make the deadline, and that it puts them in a bad light. But going as far as accusing them of making misleading statements is a bit much, no?

 

[Coustain]

.......Buying the Fourth Edition books also inspired me to start buying books of the older editions too. Not that that really means anything....

I initialy purchased the three core books, then picked up an additional PHB for the wife, I am now also buying all the 4e books released as I am the DM for our group and I completely love this edition.

I too also started picking up the older editions, cal it OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder), but I decided I wanted to get the core books for all the editions before they became so hard to find it would be impossible to get them all. (I cut my teeth on 1e and 2e, never played 3.0 or 3.5)

All I need now is a Rules Compendium and a set of 3.0 books and I am golden.

 

[Delta]

Goodman said in an interview on YouTube that they had sold more 4E DCCs so far than they had sold 3E DCCs over the past few years.

So I can see from the video that darjr posted that that is not what he said. He did say that 4E was getting more preorders than 3E did for the last couple years.

Look, I'm sure that 4E is selling a whole lot of books. That's not in doubt, nor am I interested in arguing that.

But once again someone has danced very carefully around the "record sales" issue, and you took from it what you wanted to hear. We know that both Scott Rouse and Charles Ryan are involved in this thread, they've had a golden opportunity to say for the record, "yes/no/don't know if 4E has outsold 1E to this point in time". And they have, as always, scrupulously avoided that.

So to this time I see the number of official claims that "4E has outsold all prior editions": zero. My personal theory is that 4E has sold a lot of books, less than 1E, and I don't see any evidence to the contrary.

 

[dmccoy1693]

post deleted

 

[Scott_Rouse]

We know that both Scott Rouse and Charles Ryan are involved in this thread, they've had a golden opportunity to say for the record, "yes/no/don't know if 4E has outsold 1E to this point in time". And they have, as always, scrupulously avoided that.

The golden opportunity you mention would make my Investor Relations Department among others very unhappy. I have "scrupulously avoided that" because I like my job and honor my NDA.

Charles Ryan does not work for WOTC and can only speak for 4e sales for the company he works for (Esdevium the UK distributor of D&D). Charles knows his stuff and his word is good but I suspect he has a similar NDA.

So for the record I don't know how 4e has done compared to 1e

BTW as Charles eluded to in an earlier post the sales data from TSR was sketchy so even if we could openly talk sales, the 1e to 4e sales comparison could not be made.

 

[darjr]

So to this time I see the number of official claims that "4E has outsold all prior editions": zero. My personal theory is that 4E has sold a lot of books, less than 1E, and I don't see any evidence to the contrary.

I smell straw.

I never claimed that it sold more than 1E, nor did I claim that it looked like it did. The first time I ever saw anything like that claim was from 'Ryan'. And even he stated that it was really only a guess.