So... how 'bout that Vecna article!

[Nemesis Destiny]

Now I'm getting all nostalgic for Greyhawk! I'm glad that some of the old GH stuff made it into PoLland, though I think they could have done the PoL design philosophy just as well by just insterting the Nentir Vale into GH somewhere.

I know that GH is well-developed, but I don't recall it as being a merry, happy place. Perhaps do like they did for the FR setting - bump the timeline ahead by a suitable amount, pull the existing nations further into decline, plop NV down somewhere a little remote, and call it done.

You'd still have your "new" setting, and not have to be tied to anything, but if you wanted more outside the borders of NV, there's 30 years worth of rich, detailed materials to explore (though much of it is out of date).

 

[TarionzCousin]

But with the aggravant that Iuz rules a realm on the mortal world (making him the D&D equivalent to Sauron).

While not a real English word, I understand exactly what this means. Klaus speaks English far too well.

I expect we will see more Book of Vile Darkness tie-ins since the next D&D movie is subtitled that.

As for the crunch of the article, weren't we promised a "Necromancer" many months ago? Perhaps this is going to tie-in with that. Otherwise, it seems to run counter to 4E's "Heroes are not evil" credo.

 

[Klaus]

"Aggravated by the fact that..."

Does that sound better?

 

[jbear]

Yeah, but he wasn't a divine character. Seems like he regarded Vecna as just another of the wizardly gods. I see it kinda like a Greek character saying "by Hades' helmet, he'll pay".

Also, Master of Secrets makes you count as trained in *all* those skills for skill power purposes. Skill Training only nets you one skill.

I thought you could only take one skill power feat?

I may be wrong, but that was how I interpreted it.

If that is the case, why would you want to qualify for more than one skill power?

I haven't read the article but if you can only take one Skill power feat, as I believe, it might be more useful if the feat directly gave you a skill power that you didn't qualify for.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I thought you could only take one skill power feat?

I may be wrong, but that was how I interpreted it.

If that is the case, why would you want to qualify for more than one skill power?

I haven't read the article but if you can only take one Skill power feat, as I believe, it might be more useful if the feat directly gave you a skill power that you didn't qualify for.

I believe you are correct in that you can only take the feat once, since it doesn't say you can take it multiple times, but you can freely take skill powers in place of utility powers, if you are trained in the skill it is linked to.

This feat, Master of Secrets, allows you to then treat yourself as trained in the skills for that purpose, so it isn't entirely useless. Considering though, that skill powers are not always a "good" choice, and that makes this feat's value questionable at best.

It might be more worth looking at if it gave a bonus to the associated skills, even a paltry +1 (putting it in the same league as, say, Disciple of Lore, or Bardic Knowledge), but it doesn't, so most characters will likely not take it.

 

[MrMyth]

I thought you could only take one skill power feat?

I may be wrong, but that was how I interpreted it.

If that is the case, why would you want to qualify for more than one skill power?

I haven't read the article but if you can only take one Skill power feat, as I believe, it might be more useful if the feat directly gave you a skill power that you didn't qualify for.

Whenever you gain a new utility power, you can instead take a skill power feat you qualify for. In addition, the Skill Power Feat (which you can take once) gives you an extra skill power for free. And I think Humans can take another feat to trade their bonus at-will for a free Skill Power.

So yeah, you can benefit from qualifying for a bunch of different ones.

I don't think the feat is useless, in this case, just somewhat subpar except for extremely specific builds.

 

[Mapache]

I believe you are correct in that you can only take the feat once, since it doesn't say you can take it multiple times, but you can freely take skill powers in place of utility powers, if you are trained in the skill it is linked to.

This feat, Master of Secrets, allows you to then treat yourself as trained in the skills for that purpose, so it isn't entirely useless. Considering though, that skill powers are not always a "good" choice, and that makes this feat's value questionable at best.

It might be more worth looking at if it gave a bonus to the associated skills, even a paltry +1 (putting it in the same league as, say, Disciple of Lore, or Bardic Knowledge), but it doesn't, so most characters will likely not take it.

For this feat to not be terrible, I'd say it should outright give you a skill power:

Master of Secrets
Your knowledge of secrets imparts a power useful toward completing your quests.
Prerequisite: 2nd level, any divine class, must worship Vecna
Benefit: You gain a skill power of your level or lower associated with Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, Nature, or Religion, even if you are not trained in that skill.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Maybe Zehir had those portfolios... and Vecna stole the secret from him.

Perhaps so. A quick read of Vecna's on Wikipedia article suggests he learned his arcane lore from a serpent figure, which, in a reinterpretation for 4e, could mean Vecna stole Zehir's secrets. Maybe the Book of Vile Darkness was in Zehir's library and Vecna obtained it via duplicity. However, I personally prefer Zehir not being tricked because it makes him look dumb IMO (I don't think would be a desireable trait for Zehir). I prefer Zehir allowing Vecna take his secrets for whatever reason.

As for a demigod on par with archdevils and demon princes, that's Iuz in a nutshell.

Are you saying that because Iuz is a demigod figure, Vecna shouldn't be?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Perhaps so. A quick read of Vecna's on Wikipedia article suggests he learned his arcane lore from a serpent figure, which, in a reinterpretation for 4e, could mean Vecna stole Zehir's secrets. Maybe the Book of Vile Darkness was in Zehir's library and Vecna obtained it via duplicity. However, I personally prefer Zehir not being tricked because it makes him look dumb IMO (I don't think would be a desireable trait for Zehir). I prefer Zehir allowing Vecna take his secrets for whatever reason.

You love Zehir so much, I'm beginning to think you're a yuan-ti yourself. Purebloods pass as humans, y'know.

Of course, at your table, any gods can be anything you want them to be.

But Zehir in 4e is not about secrets and secrecy and the unknown. He's about poisons and assassins and serpents. Quiet murder. Fear and darkness. The threat of a hiss, the silent slither before the kill. Zehir's a god of violence and malice.

Vecna's more of a "dusty tomes of deliberately obscured lore" kind of dude, so he gets to be secrets and forgotten things.

Personally, I think he works fine in that capacity. And as an "ascended mortal," he gives D&D the cosmological clue that you, too, can become immortal, become a god, become feared by all...or perhaps, as a hero, you prefer to be loved?

Anyway, WotC is sure as heck pumping out a lot of articles about evil folks with PC abilities for a game ostensibly about "heroes." Not that I mind, I just find the constant dissonance of "Okay, dudes, here are awesome rules for how you can be a necromancer-priest of death and zombies! Just remember, save the orphans, okay?!" to be kind of hilarious.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

You love Zehir so much, I'm beginning to think you're a yuan-ti yourself. Purebloods pass as humans, y'know.

Indeed, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm some pureblood sleeper agent, programmed to subconsciously stand up for Zehir under the guise of a gamer ...

I guess I don't feel Zehir has yet been presented as cool enough to make me want to kill him and take his stuff, so right now he seems irrelevant to me (I may also be hung up by my conceptions of real-world darkness/forbidden lore/serpent gods).

Perhaps someday Zehir will get the Torog treatment and I'll be able to stand him a little better.