D&D 4E So how do we do charm effects in 4E?

[Traycor]

I think they said somewhere that charms will be nerfed (and effectively replaced by psionics).

No, they only stated that charms would be limited in effect and scope to let psionics truly shine in this category.

So wizards will probably still be charming, sleeping, confusing, etc... But the spells will probably only have very specific (as opposed to open-ended) effects. We will probably no longer see powerful wizard spells like "Dominate Person", "Gease" and the like.

 

[Khaalis]

No, they only stated that charms would be limited in effect and scope to let psionics truly shine in this category. So wizards will probably still be charming, sleeping, confusing, etc... But the spells will probably only have very specific (as opposed to open-ended) effects. We will probably no longer see powerful wizard spells like "Dominate Person", "Gease" and the like.

Correct. They have trimmed back and reduced the amount of Enchantment/Charm shtick the Wizard has to better allow the Psion to shine as the preeminent Mind Control class. As an example of what wizard's still get is Sleep which has been shown as one of the 1st level picks for the playtest wizards. I would also expect to see them having other limited use effects of this type that confuse targets, interupt actions, etc. but nothing that outright "alters" the opponents mind like Charm Person, Dominate, etc. That we will see with the psionic classes.

 

[Silvergriffon]

I would like to see Charm spells tie directly into the new social encounter system (however that turns out to work). Perhaps something that gives you a bonus to social skill checks, kind of like a jump spell for Diplomacy. The player would then still have to get involved in such a way that requires him to use his magically enhanced "charming" personality rather than simply issuing orders.

 

[infax]

With combat spells and utility spells getting more segregated in 4e, I'm guessing we'll have two kinds of Charm spells.

One Charm spell will be mostly useful out of combat, adding a bonus to diplomacy and deception checks, I guess and tying in nicely with the social encounter rules. Something like the Jump spell for social encounters - as Silvergriffon suggested. Although I hope it won't be that great a bonus as the +10 bonus Jump provided. Otherwise it would greatly diminish the shine of those characters investing in the skill.

Another would be a kind of combat charm. The purpose would be to take a creature out of combat and something dazed or slightly friendly once combat is over. I would guess, as other posters, that it would take several rounds to take full effect, however, I'd prefer it had immediate consequences for each failed check as Poison or Petrification seem to be going to work. Something like a "Command" for every successful attack against save would be appropriate. After 3-5 successful attacks against Will, the subject would be fully charmed. I'm not sure if I would prefer this to be a fire and forget type of spell or if it would require repeated uses. I guess fire and forget would be better than giving the Wizard this spell At Will (something that could be reserved for the Psion or an hypothetical Enchanter class).

Getting the target to act in combat, however, would be something reserved for Domination or Enthrallment spells, I think.

 

[roguerouge]

Adjudicating social interactions is an art, not a science. Role playing charm person and other enchantment spells requires good DM/player communication and both individuals being good sports about it. If both factors are in place, it's a spell that generates a lot of narrative. I'll be disappointed if its poetry gets turned into a combat mechanic like command. If it gets turned into a skill mechanic, that's fine but it's begging the question as the same "problems" of trust, good sportsmanship, and poetic inexactitude will remain. They'll just feel that they have a problem in a different section of the book, which will only lead to more tinkering.