D&D 5E So Monks can't actually use Eternal Mountain Defence until two levels after learning it?

[Dalamar]

This is probably an oversight, but it seems Eternal Mountain Defence is the only Elemental Discipline learnable at 11th level that has a cost of 5 Ki. Which the Monk can't spend until level 13.

Somewhat related, but does it feel odd to anybody else that the maximum ki you can spend doesn't increase at the same levels where you gain access to new Disciplines?

 

[Syntallah]

An 11th level monk has 11 ki points, enough to perform Eternal twice between rests...

Looks like you may be referring to the table on page 80 that references how much a monk may 'beef up' his powers with extra ki points.

EDIT: except you may actually be on to something. The paragraph right above the aforementioned table does indeed say "(including base ki point cost and any additional ki points...)" That's pretty lame. Monk has always been one of my favorite classes, and the more I read about 'em, the more I am disappointed...

 

[Dalamar]

Indeed, there are all kinds of oversights in the Monk. For example, the Elemental Disciplines that are not spells have no Ki spending limit (or components).

And I just noticed that Stoneskin is a Concentration spell, so you're relatively likely to lose it until level 14 when you are hit.

 

[Shroomy]

I just re-read the PHB section and I believe that Syntallah was initially correct. At 11th level, a monk would have 11 ki points and would be able to use eternal mountain defense twice between rests. The table and paragraphs on page 80 only applies to spells that increase in potency if they're cast with a higher-level slot (the extra ki and level caps replicate the slot system used by other spellcasting classes). You don't gain anything from casting stoneskin with a higher level slot so those rules don't apply. Also, I don't think stoneskin is completely useless before level 14, as the damage is halved before the Constitution check is made, which should bring the DC down to a reasonable level. In addition, the only elemental discipline that doesn't have a ki cost is elemental attunement, which is very similar to the prestidigitation, druidcraft, and thaumaturgy cantrips so I'm OK with that. Finally, you do gain a ki point when you learn new disciplines - you get 1 ki point per level, so your pool increases at 6th, 11th, and 17th level at the same time you gain new disciplines.

 

[Bryk]

This:

"
The maximum number of ki points you can spend to
cast a spell in this way (including its base ki point cost
and any additional ki points you spend to increase its
level) is determined by your monk level, as shown in the
Spells and Ki Points table.
"
This follows:

"
Once you reach 5th level in this class, you can spend
additional ki points to increase the level of an elemental
discipline spell that you cast, provided that the spell has
an enhanced effect at a higher level, as burning hands
does.
"

I just re-read the PHB section and I believe that Syntallah was initially correct. At 11th level, a monk would have 11 ki points and would be able to use eternal mountain defense twice between rests. The table and paragraphs on page 80 only applies to spells that increase in potency if they're cast with a higher-level slot (the extra ki and level caps replicate the slot system used by other spellcasting classes). You don't gain anything from casting stoneskin with a higher level slot so those rules don't apply. Also, I don't think stoneskin is completely useless before level 14, as the damage is halved before the Constitution check is made, which should bring the DC down to a reasonable level. In addition, the only elemental discipline that doesn't have a ki cost is elemental attunement, which is very similar to the prestidigitation, druidcraft, and thaumaturgy cantrips so I'm OK with that. Finally, you do gain a ki point when you learn new disciplines - you get 1 ki point per level, so your pool increases at 6th, 11th, and 17th level at the same time you gain new disciplines.

 

[Dalamar]

That seems like really complicated way of saying it. Not to mention that it then absolutely excludes the Disciplines that aren't spells. So Water Whip requires no somatic components and you can feel free to dump all your Ki in one big (non-magical) hit with it.

Really, consistency please.

 

[Zaran]

Reading these threads, I am just reminded that most of the problems are coming from the classes or paths that were not playtested.

 

[D'karr]

Reading these threads, I am just reminded that most of the problems are coming from the classes or paths that were not playtested.

Bingo. I wouldn't say not playtested, but not part of the open playtest.

 

[Shroomy]

The monk was part of the open playtest and this particular subclass was definitely part of the F&F playtest - which was considerably large. However, in any case, there's nothing actually wrong with it.

As for the ki-fueled spellcasting, it's designed to mimic the maximum spell slot that a half-caster can cast at a particular level (for spells level 1-4; it takes 6 ki points to cast a 5th level spell and they cannot be upgraded, just like a half caster). Yes, you can blow all your ki points at once with fist of unbroken air or water whip, but at the cost of being pretty useless until you take a rest.