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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 6050158" data-attributes="member: 4348">They say that the product that ruins the market normally isn't the product being released when it is a sequel.  It is the one that was released previous to it.A lot of love was lost when they isolated the OSR or old school gamers with the 3.X releases.The Old schoolers went underground and D20 seemed to reign (probably because it was all that was really being made at the time, there was very little you could buy that WASN'T D20).It was a bitter pill for the 3.X players to eat though, they tend to be more vocal overall, and there you go.4e was successful to a point, but like 3.5 during it's last two years...sales had dropped off.  What did you want WotC to do?They could have held off on 4e...and been closed as 3.5 wasn't making the money that last few years that was demanded of by their higher ups.4e had a pretty successful initial release...but followed the same path as 3.5 in sales.  I think the bigger mistake was pushing everything as core at first (a lesson they thought they learned from 3.5, it was felt that sales dropped off with 3.5 because what they were selling WAS NOT core) and then people got too used to everything being called core and not especially optional.  People also got tired of some of the wilt of product (PHB3, how many classes and odd races will people go for...Dungeon Survival Guide...how many want to play goblins???).Essentials was a grab to try to re-invigorate the Core rule book type sales.Redbox starter was good to one degree, but bad on another.  Old school fans may have liked the cover...but they don't like the way it was presented ultimately...if it's in a box like that it should contain a certain product, and 4e wasn't it.I thought it was nice, but many did not.However, 4e was successful, but NOT successful enough.  AKA...not to the degree that it is expected to be by those higher up on the food ladder...hence the pressure.3.5 suffered similar problems as well...so this is hardly something started by 4e.  People either were unaware of sales difficulties with 3.5 during it's last two years...or they have very short memories.</blockquote>

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