So that's why you like it

[Aberzanzorax]

To Rechan regarding Xorn (from your original post):

I never saw them until 3e...so these are SRD Xorn...and I'm not a Xornboi...but I do like them.


There is a thrill about earth creatures erupting from the ground en masse, using their tremorsense to determine where the party may be.

Combine that with their alien perspective and appearance and their intelligence, and you have something that's sorta an earth beholder, but perhaps something like:

"snotty elf is to dwarf as beholder is to xorn"


Now, I don't mean to suggest that they would make an excellent ubervillian (as a beholder might). But they are an interesting potential "alien" society to deal with.

In fact, part of the appeal of them is that they could be potentially allies or enemies, but they're so expensive to buy off that they're quite a challenge from a roleplaying perspective.



What I don't get:

The magic item creation feats from 3rd edition. Are these fun for people? If so, how? Do you get to use them to the point they are worth having? If so, how does this occur? I've never seen them employed in the many third ed games I've played (Except for scroll writing since wizards get that for free and scrolls are very inexpensive).

 

[SKyOdin]

Heavy metal. I like songs from every other musical genre, but I just don't get the appeal of all that...noise.

...What? Game related? Oh, okay, I've got one of those too. I don't get the appeal of bullywugs, catfalk, lizardfolk and all other "they're like people but superficially animalistic" races.

Rechan covered this pretty well, but I have a couple of things to add. The reason that I like anthropomorphic animal races is due in large part to being exposed to them quite a bit in the formative years of my interest in fantasy. What really got me interested in the fantasy genre were various SNES-era Japanese RPGs. Among them was an RPG series called Breath of Fire where the main cast looks like this. (Note that the one guy in the center who looks like a human is actually a dragon). So from early on, antropomorhpic animal races in fantasy was a familiar concept to me.

Since then, I have been exposed to a lot of literature, anime, and videogames that have also featured animal races. For example, my favorite piece of literature these days is the the Hindu epic, the Ramayana, in which one of the coolest characters is a monkey god named Hanuman.

In short, I like animal races in D&D in large part due to nostalgia and familiarity.

EDIT: Thinking about it, I actually have a related question: Why do so many people get so fanboyish about elves? For some reason, I have never really understood the appeal. While I can understand the appeal of a race that lives much longer than a human, I can't figure out why people would want to play one. I have never actually played an elf character, in part because I could never figure out why it would be any different from playing a human.

 

[kenmarable]

What I don't get, though, is the love for Drizzt Do'Urden. Can someone explain their love of him for me?

I'll tackle this, although I'm sure there are others who can handle it better.

One reason why I really dig Drizzt, is, to be frank, I haven't read the latest several novels with him, so I haven't been overloaded. For me, I read the original Icewind Dale trilogy and the Dark Elf trilogy as a teenager, and they just hit the perfect sweet spot for awesome action and non-cardboard characters for that age. The rest of the novels (that I read) were fun in that they were revisiting characters I liked and all, but really those two trilogies stand out as the peak of Drizzt-dom.

In fact, I'm not ashamed to admit, that as a teenager and all the particular stress those years entail, reading Drizzt's commentaries between chapters was quite moving. I went so far as typing them up and hanging a couple on my wall. He was a role model in a way (not being a dual scimitar wielding emo before emo's were invented), but as someone who is deep down a very good person but struggling to find how to walk that path when all around seemed to work against you. (Like I said, I was a teenager.) To this day, I still really like his line about grief dividing when shared, and joys multiplying.

Plus, there's just the visceral joy watching Drizzts, Wolverines, and Snake Eyes. The supreme confidence and supreme talent totally unleashing is good old fun. After a couple decades, it can get old as they try to out-do the last awesomeness, but in their early prime (e.g. 2 original Drizzt trilogies, Chris Clairemont's X-Men for Wolverine, etc.), it's just fun.


Now, what I have trouble getting is Lovecraftian inspired stuff. I mean, you just throw in some Elder tentacles from outer space with people going insane and fans get all giddy. Although, honestly, I think my problem might not be with Lovecraft's actual work, but just the massive overload of "Lovecraftian" stuff where if there's a single tentacle or some insanity, everyone is all claiming it's "Lovecraftian" as if that alone makes it a better product. A story or adventure might seem pretty mediocre, but if you can get some "Lovecraftian" street cred, it suddenly becomes utterly awesome to a lot of fans. I just don't get it.

 

[ashockney]

What's the interest?

Encumbrance?


Material Components?


(This one should get some response...)

Psionics?


(and finally...)


California?

 

[Rechan]

There is a thrill about earth creatures erupting from the ground en masse, using their tremorsense to determine where the party may be.

Combine that with their alien perspective and appearance and their intelligence, and you have something that's sorta an earth beholder, but perhaps something like:

"snotty elf is to dwarf as beholder is to xorn"

Now, I don't mean to suggest that they would make an excellent ubervillian (as a beholder might). But they are an interesting potential "alien" society to deal with.

In fact, part of the appeal of them is that they could be potentially allies or enemies, but they're so expensive to buy off that they're quite a challenge from a roleplaying perspective.

Aaah. Okay, that makes a little more sense. I understood the combat/visual aesthetic, but I never saw the charm.

What it sounds like, is like having some sort of alien thing you have to deal with; it could be an ally or an enemy, so it leaves a level of "What do we do"? And since alignment doesn't factor into it, the players are challenged purely by the Xorn's priorities being so different from their own.

It actually makes me think of Star Wars; the many alien traders and the like. You might see a Xorn in Jabba the Hut's place, or maybe a merchant or collector who will only part with its stuff for gems.

Now I can dig it.

Also, xornboi. I love that.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

W00t one I can answer sort of. I can't go as indepth as you Rechan since I am just writing from my own experience/views of why I like it. But here goes:

Gith:

For myself it is a couple of things.

• Their appearance I find works well and while similar to humans has a distinctive enough appearance to not be, "humans with pointy ears"
• The ongoing bitterness, rivarly, hatred, etc. between the two Gith races, yet they have a shared heritage. This is the most compelling point with them I find, and the fact it stretches across multiple planes.
• Living on freaking dead gods (pre-4e), being Astral pirates (4e)!
• Them being Psionic (what can I say I am a sucker for Psionics)
• They have a shared heritage with the rest of the planes as well. They don't feel like a randomnly plopped down race, there is a depth to them.

Oh and since it was mentioned before, my Elan response from old thread(redone for this thread):

Elan:

• They have a great mystique around them. From their choose of which human to turn. The ritual to turn them into Elan. The secret Enclaves.
• Adaptable, thanks in part to their mystery they can be easily adapted to multiple plots and settings.
• Psionics
• They have a bit of "wolf-in-sheeps-clothing" feel. They appear human but are not and have distinct abilities and altered personality. Which helps in making them exotic but not in the "weird looking" way.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Ack, doublepost. Well, I'll take this opportunity to add one more.

Okay, my turn. Gith (both Githyanki and Githezeri). What's up with the Gith? Why the attraction? Is it Planescape Nostalgia, or that they're the first psionic race to really be out there? Or just the built in illithid/gith conflict?

Now, what I have trouble getting is Lovecraftian inspired stuff. I mean, you just throw in some Elder tentacles from outer space with people going insane and fans get all giddy. Although, honestly, I think my problem might not be with Lovecraft's actual work, but just the massive overload of "Lovecraftian" stuff where if there's a single tentacle or some insanity, everyone is all claiming it's "Lovecraftian" as if that alone makes it a better product. A story or adventure might seem pretty mediocre, but if you can get some "Lovecraftian" street cred, it suddenly becomes utterly awesome to a lot of fans. I just don't get it.

I think I will second both of these. Actually, I was going to ask about the Lovecraftian/Far Realms stuff myself earlier, but felt it was leaning a bit too much towards rant so I decided against it. Still, I wonder... Why the Far Realm? I can almost understand why some people may like unnatural aberration stuff, but I don't get the need for the infinite world of infinite madness that pretty much contradicts any attempt at a reasonably sane cosmology, and insists on forcing its way into the game more than is strictly necessary.

As for Gith... What do they do that can't be done with something else? Why are they different races? Why green/gray/yellow/whatever skin and spots?

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Just as I finish posting more stuff pops up!

Lovecraft:

I actually agree with you, even though I love insanity stuff and weird tentacles, etc. I don't consider that Lovecraft. I think that is something that should while not isolated from Lovecraft be more taken as only a small portion of it.

To me Lovecraft's allure is all about the callousness of his universe. We quite literally don't matter, there isn't open hostility toward our world, but not acceptance or help either. There is also in this a sense of oldness and smallness, the universe is vast and old and we are only a small part of it.

It is more a genre-type really then a specific Lovecraft thing. I find.

Psionics:

For myself it is a combo of well I just plain love mixing genres. So mixing in Psionics with fantasy is like ice cream and chocolate chips. It also gives a alternative to ordinary magic. A feel of something more tangible, readable, scientific.

Also the fact that is natural (in the idea that it generally viewed as something you are gifted with thanks to being born that way) so it isn't something drawn from a outside source, or something learnt but a natural part of who you are.

It also for myself the Pseudoscience flavour is something I like (not all do but I do). I find it is a very good fantasy flavour since it builds off assumptions from our world but goes in a direction that this world doesn't. It has that alternative history fun to it.

Also psychic-phenomena is a major part of modern folklore. It is our modern day Merlin, Philosopher's Stone, etc.

California:

San Francisco enough said.

 

[Rechan]

Thanks, FS. I suspect that part of my unappreciation of Gith is that Planescape just didn't turn my crank (I got into D&D around 1998, after Planescape had crested and fallen). So I didn't grow to like them because I wasn't intrigued by anything planar.

Now that you mention elans, that is really giving me a Dollhouse vibe. Not only that, but you can have the "Wolf in SHeep's Clothing" without resorting to shapeshifters. (Granted, I really like shapeshifters).

In fact, I imagine you can also get the "created" feel to elan; they're not human, but artificial (in the sense that they are "made", even though they used to be people). So it can raise issues of identity, if that sort of dilemma does it for you.

 

[Cadfan]

Gnomes.

I really don't get it. Is there some gnome fiction out there I haven't seen? Something that gives them character and personality? Because as far as I can tell they're small people who talk to voles.

Is it just the joy of being different?

Because seriously, I can't even think of any gnomish traits. At all. Except illusions and talking to shrews (but not tree shrews).

For the purpose of this question I'm talking about pre 4e gnomes, I know they got revised a bit, and I know that the typical gnome fan loved them in previous editions and doesn't necessarily like them now. What was the deal?