D&D 5E (2014) (+) So, what have you done to make martials feel better?

[ECMO3]

What if all martial got a stunning strike style ability (requires action instead of single attack and ki).

That would certainly make them more powerful.

 

[ECMO3]

Glances at Eldritch Knight And be usable? Hard. Very, very hard.

I'm still bucking for a full-on fighter/magic-user class myself.

What is wrong with Eldritch Knight?

Also you can always multiclass. Eldritch Kinght-Abjuration is a pretty awesome combo. War Magic would work well too if you want something more straightforward.

 

[Art Waring]

What if they opened up design space to let subclass features replace class features? Give up your action surge for beast companion, give up second wind for some kind of maneuver your beast could learn to protect allies or take down a weakened opponent. I think it sounds neat.

Pathfinder did this with ACF's, or Alternate Class Features, they predated 5e, and IMO I think they were adapted into 5e for its class archetypes. Its interesting how games can evolve with some competition. I think they work well either way.

Basically, you choose your alternate class, like the arcane trickster for the Rogue, switching out class features of your choice for abilities that better match the desired archetype.

 

[Garthanos]

I think that it could be done if there were some structural changes to allow for Subclasses that could, optionally, have a greater impact on play style. But throw some primal magic at a fighter, give them some skill expertise in survival and stealth, and let them pick a quarry when you roll initiative and give a bonus die of damage against their quarry? Well hell, that’s pretty ranger-y to me.

Paladin may be trickier, but could be pulled off with multiple subclasses. I think a divine half-caster with some supportive abilities would hit most of the beats.

So each oath is a subclass and also core class features to replace some parts of the fighter hmmmm

Now that I think about it, bump up eldritch knight to half caster arcane progression, then have ranger as half caster primal and Paladin as half caster divine… I like how that ends up looking.

I think it might be possible but I also think tricky is it's name-o. Many but not all of the archetypes/subclasses are really just pre-planned multi-classing by a different name. (4e had some themes which if you used the power swapping a lot will feel like the same / but it was a choice in effect replacing a core class power/feature with one from your theme. 5e does have a pretty flexible multiclassing already but isnt careful of making a level X ability the same potency as another level X ability.

Step one I think is making sure the base fighter is flexible enough to cover the martial aspects of those classes and leaves room for the subclass effects.

 

[SakanaSensei]

I went ahead and made a mock up of the idea for folding the ranger into the fighter as a subclass, although it uses a different paradigm than current subclasses. Mostly a thought experiment, my commute to work this morning was full of ideas.

Alternative Subclass System Proof of Concept

Design Goal: Strixhaven is… a bit of a mess, I agree. And I’m not overly interested in the “magical school” flavor that was its main selling point. But man oh man did I love the concept of subclasses that could be used with any, or just multiple, classes. The implementation failed hard in UA, th...

docs.google.com

 

[bloodtide]

Some I use are:

*Shields shall be sundered- You get the usual -1 to your AC with a shield. However, any time you take damage, you can opt instead to say your shield absorbed the force of the blow. The shield is shattered and must be discarded, but you don't take any damage from that hit. It's quick, it's easy, and it's valuable.

The Combat Maneuver System--After an attacker rolls for damage, they *can propose a maneuver. The defender may choose whether to accept the maneuver or take the damage. On a critical the maneuver is a complete success, and the declared result occurs.

 

[Garthanos]

Some I use are:

*Shields shall be sundered- You get the usual -1 to your AC with a shield. However, any time you take damage, you can opt instead to say your shield absorbed the force of the blow. The shield is shattered and must be discarded, but you don't take any damage from that hit. It's quick, it's easy, and it's valuable.

I thought of allowing one to cancel a critical hit by sacrificing the shield (usually a shields straps are what is broken and damaged severely enough it will need repaired) and if the shield is magical it may resist sundering with a saving throw based on their users str ....

 

[FrozenNorth]

Much of the techniques I use to boost martials are difficult to apply universally, but here are a couple.

1. I make efforts to give martials greater story focus

The fighter is one campaign took the noble background and the rest of the party were commoners. In a War of the Roses inspired campaign, that meant a lot of social interactions were principally with the fighter, even if the hard had better social skills.

In another Middle-Eastern campaign, the fighter was a fire genasi. Guess who was related to the overrarching villain. Also, being a fire genasi meant that they had to act as the face with respect to the many creatures they encountered who only spoke Primordial.

2. Spells sinks and environmental effects

I try to use environmental effects to make spellcasters use slots and to encourage multiple small spells rather than 1 encounter-ending spell.

When they spent several days on the plane of fire, the Wizard had to upcast (homebrew) Endure Elements at 3rd level on all non-fire resistent characters to avoid burning. This also cut down on the “every turn my owl familiar Flybys the monster to give advantage” because the wizard was unwilling to commit additional 3rd level slots on the familiars.

Also, casting non-cantrip spells in many places had a 1 in 4 chance of triggering a wild surge (my own homebrew table), thus making spellcasters more cautious with their high level spells.

3. “Yes, and…” and “No, because…”

I don’t like using this tool, but I still do on occasion. Unorthodox use of skills by anyone tend to receive a lot of slack. Unorthodox use of magic has me pulling out the spell description and 1) checking to see if anything is contraindicated; and 2) even if it isn’t, making an on-the-spot evaluation whether that use is “too powerful” for the level.

4. Standard “restrictive magic” rulings

Verbal and somatic components are clearly magic and cannot be disguised.
Casting a spell in a social situation without the consent of everyone present is akin to drawing a deadly weapon. People are likely to treat it like an active shooter situation. This even applies to spells like Tongues or Comprehend Languages, so you better communicate your intent before starting to chant ominous words.
Spell effects are obvious. Even mindless creatures affected by booming blade understand that they will take additional damage if they move. If a spell allows another creature to take an action to free an ally from the spell, the course of action and its effect is obvious to the creature.

5. Extensive use of non-spellcasting features
I try to ensure that racial features, backgrounds, skills and non-spellcasting class features come into play often and have a substantial effect.

6. Proficiency die (not yet implemented)
I’m considering using the proficiency die variant from the DMG for attack rolls, skills and saving throws, except that the proficiency die does not improve with level. Also implementing preset ways to increase your proficiency die in combat (such as flanking and magic weapons).

This should strengthen martials (because proficiency on attacks is relatively easy to increase) while reducing the consistency of spells (since saving throws tend both higher and more variable), thereby encouraging the use of more low-level spells, than encounter-ending high level spells.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Edit. Double post.

 

[Garthanos]

I went ahead and made a mock up of the idea for folding the ranger into the fighter as a subclass, although it uses a different paradigm than current subclasses. Mostly a thought experiment, my commute to work this morning was full of ideas.

Alternative Subclass System Proof of Concept

Design Goal: Strixhaven is… a bit of a mess, I agree. And I’m not overly interested in the “magical school” flavor that was its main selling point. But man oh man did I love the concept of subclasses that could be used with any, or just multiple, classes. The implementation failed hard in UA, th...

docs.google.com

I think the shifts in paradigm you are using is different enough to make analysis harder... avoiding level dipping I think is important and not assuming people are ok with removing the multiclassing
(but given the traps in multiclassing I can see why some do) and the anything you can do I can do better which happens when its easy to poach.
Level Up removed/split up the action surge into maneuvers which in effect meant the capability only be used for weapon based attacks and movement effects not spell casting ie its a martial ability. Making the two level dip less attractive. One could I suppose split all proficiency with armor into 1 level worth so that your plate only comes online when you can actually afford it LOL.