So, what is your Favorite "Villain" race these days?

[payn]

The worst is all the halfling bards...

Forward yesterday cutting words lead you astray
I'm the opposite of weal know I'm gonna steal
I like to play guitar, in my head Ima superstar
All's I got is time, got no meaning, just a rhyme

Take time with a wounded hand
'Cause I cast a spirit that will heal
Take time with a wounded hand
'Cause I like to steal
Take time with a wounded hand
'Cause I can cast heal
and I like to steal

I'm half the man I used to be
(It's a half-pint bard that I wanna play)
Well, I'm half the man I used to be
(It's a half-pint bard that I wanna play)
Well, I'm half the man I used to be
(It's a half-pint bard that I wanna play)
Well, I'm half the man I used to be
Half the man I used to be

As I a dire halfling I approve of this message.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

As I a dire halfling ...

Suppose you were dire.
And suppose you were a halfling.

But I repeat myself.

 

[GrimCo]

As a DM i left clear cut good/evil looong time ago. I tend to use more organic approach. Good and evil is just a matter of perspective and history is written by winners. It's about individual and group motivations, goals and agendas. Also, some things are just hungry and PCs are beneath them in food chain. Circle of life is amoral and all that jazz.

 

[Deset Gled]

I question the need for a quick and easy way to communicate to the players, "These are the bad guys. It's okay to kill them." Self-defense is a valid reason, whether or not they are the bad guys - and indeed is probably the only valid reason.

You have answered this very well in the next part of your post.

Very simply, this...

My species situation is considerably more complicated than that, to the extent that you can and characters do argue over this question in world. OK, so the Free Peoples are people, but should Fey count or are they something else entirely? And I mean, its one thing to say an Sidhe is a person, but a sprite or atomie those are hardly better or smarter than rats and it's OK to kill rats right? What about Giants? What about Goblins, are they really still people? And sure, kobolds are definitely not people, but does that mean it's moral to kill them without any more cause than that? What if they are just minding their own business? And animals, is it really OK to just kill them for fun? So why is it alright to kill anything just for fun?

... Simply isn't fun for me.

Morality is a great thing to be in tune with. There are a lot of great questions about what makes something human. When is it morally justified to kill? Even in the case of self defense, when is the threshold of safety crossed? When do you have a moral obligation to retreat? Is it different if you present as a threat to your opponent? What constitutes threatening your opponent? These are all really important questions that I am glad people think about in real life. And if you like that in your game, by all means, have fun with it.

But I really don't want to do any of that at the game table. I don't play RPGs to have moral quandaries or discussions. That's just a level of reality I don't need in my escapism. We raid dungeons. We stop the evil that's destroying the world. We kill people and take their stuff. We don't wonder if the gods are real (because we can literally talk with them), and we don't wonder about what happens when you die (because some of us have been there), and we don't spend a lot of time discussing when it's okay to kill and when it isn't.

Every group draws a line in the sand for when they accept violence and death as an option. For some, it's practically never. For you, it's self defense. For a lot of us, we just need a quick and easy way for the GM to communicate that line to the players, and then we get on with the rest of the game.

 

[Wolfpack48]

You have answered this very well in the next part of your post.

Very simply, this...




... Simply isn't fun for me.

Morality is a great thing to be in tune with. There are a lot of great questions about what makes something human. When is it morally justified to kill? Even in the case of self defense, when is the threshold of safety crossed? When do you have a moral obligation to retreat? Is it different if you present as a threat to your opponent? What constitutes threatening your opponent? These are all really important questions that I am glad people think about in real life. And if you like that in your game, by all means, have fun with it.

But I really don't want to do any of that at the game table. I don't play RPGs to have moral quandaries or discussions. That's just a level of reality I don't need in my escapism. We raid dungeons. We stop the evil that's destroying the world. We kill people and take their stuff. We don't wonder if the gods are real (because we can literally talk with them), and we don't wonder about what happens when you die (because some of us have been there), and we don't spend a lot of time discussing when it's okay to kill and when it isn't.

Every group draws a line in the sand for when they accept violence and death as an option. For some, it's practically never. For you, it's self defense. For a lot of us, we just need a quick and easy way for the GM to communicate that line to the players, and then we get on with the rest of the game.

It’s a very easy choice when the monster is trying to kill you (generally the case in a lotta rpgs!)

 

[Meech17]

You have answered this very well in the next part of your post.

Very simply, this...




... Simply isn't fun for me.

Morality is a great thing to be in tune with. There are a lot of great questions about what makes something human. When is it morally justified to kill? Even in the case of self defense, when is the threshold of safety crossed? When do you have a moral obligation to retreat? Is it different if you present as a threat to your opponent? What constitutes threatening your opponent? These are all really important questions that I am glad people think about in real life. And if you like that in your game, by all means, have fun with it.

But I really don't want to do any of that at the game table. I don't play RPGs to have moral quandaries or discussions. That's just a level of reality I don't need in my escapism. We raid dungeons. We stop the evil that's destroying the world. We kill people and take their stuff. We don't wonder if the gods are real (because we can literally talk with them), and we don't wonder about what happens when you die (because some of us have been there), and we don't spend a lot of time discussing when it's okay to kill and when it isn't.

Every group draws a line in the sand for when they accept violence and death as an option. For some, it's practically never. For you, it's self defense. For a lot of us, we just need a quick and easy way for the GM to communicate that line to the players, and then we get on with the rest of the game.

I know a lot of people don't like the moral quandary. It's why in most video games you just kill the red guys because you're the blue guys! It's what you do!

But one of the great things about ttrpgs is that we are able to stop and really question why we're killing the red guys.

 

[cbwjm]

But one of the great things about ttrpgs is that we are able to stop and really question why we're killing the red guys.

The answer often being "because they're the baddies"

 

[Meech17]

The answer often being "because they're the baddies"

Sure.. And that's fine.. And it's totally fine to fast track the whole red team = bad guys.

I think it's a lot of fun at look at the red team, and the blue team, and the yellow team, and the green team, and finding out they're all on a spectrum between good and baddie and having to make the party decide what part of the scale they want to put their finger on to shape the outcome of the adventure and the fate of the town/city/kingdom/region/world.

 

[FrogReaver]

Elves make good baddies too.

 

[Celebrim]

You have answered this very well in the next part of your post.

Very simply, this...

... Simply isn't fun for me.

Morality is a great thing to be in tune with. There are a lot of great questions about what makes something human. When is it morally justified to kill? Even in the case of self defense, when is the threshold of safety crossed? When do you have a moral obligation to retreat? Is it different if you present as a threat to your opponent? What constitutes threatening your opponent? These are all really important questions that I am glad people think about in real life. And if you like that in your game, by all means, have fun with it.

But I really don't want to do any of that at the game table. I don't play RPGs to have moral quandaries or discussions. That's just a level of reality I don't need in my escapism. We raid dungeons. We stop the evil that's destroying the world. We kill people and take their stuff. We don't wonder if the gods are real (because we can literally talk with them), and we don't wonder about what happens when you die (because some of us have been there), and we don't spend a lot of time discussing when it's okay to kill and when it isn't...

I literally don't understand how your answer is relevant. My players in my campaign, many of them are equally uninterested in this as well. They raid dungeons. They stop the thing they designated as evil that they think threatens to destroying the world satisfied that there designation is probably the right one. They kill people and take their stuff. Occasionally they have a "Are we the baddies moment?", but they shrug and continue doing what they are doing without a lot of soul searching. Occasionally, one member of the party might cross another member of the parties line and cause them to go, "Hey, maybe that was a little too brutal and merciless." But the presence of moral complexity in no way obligates you to engage with it. It's strange to think that if you think it is there that you'd have to engage with it, but that also you think you could do something that would cause the moral complexity to stop being there. How does that even work?