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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 6112959" data-attributes="member: 6674889">"How about an option C? How about there isn't a right answer, but instead you choose whether the power offered by the divine being and it's desired approach are worth your obedience and service? If it gave you the power to enforce its will and you choose not to... why wouldn't it take it's power away (and I find it hard to believe that beings on a divine level would not have a fail-safe in place for traitors.)."My thoughts exactly. If any servant of a god displeases them in any way, bam, powers/spells/whatever removed. Paladins should get extra boons that most can't attain, because they are not worthy morally, physically, or spiritually to be an earthly representative, or "avatar" if you will, of that god. The downside should be a strict code and if you don't follow it, you lose any magical powers until you atone. If you don't wish to play under such restrictions, don't play a paladin. (or cleric). I fail to see how / why an LG god about protecting the weak would be pleased if his followers were using his granted spells to burn villages, or steal, and so on. And yes, in play, you often do see a dichotomy worthy of "fallen paladin needing to atone", even for unintentional things. You took that last piece of bread that belonged to an old man, he died, bam, you need to get on your knees and BEG for forgiveness. If you can't stomach it, join another church and "convert" to an order with a less strict code. RP restrictions don't need to be ridiculous, and yeah the "lawful" questions of which laws do you obey, the earthly laws or the divine ones, or some personal one, are up to the campaign DM and player to resolve, probably before swearing the oath in the first place. After all, you don't sign a contract without reading the fine print first, do you?What I see a lot in this "let's remove alignment and all RP restrictions" is that players want to play brutal rogues who have paladin powers, i.e. false paladins. Nuh uh, your god knows what's in your mind, his eye is on the sparrow so to speak. And even if you do something wicked through negligence, that shouldn't automatically protect you from having to atone either. A stupid, thoughtless fool who isn't mindful of the repercussions of his actions isn't really champion material, is he. Stat requirements should be, IMO, 14 10 10 10 12 14 for a paladin. You need to be strong to wield a sword in plate armor, first. You can't be a fool (int can't be negative, has to have some kind of wisdom), and must be charismatic but not necessarily Elvis. 4e incentivised you to pump charisma, even dumping str entirely (yuck), by giving you charisma-based attack powers. ugh...I knew at the beginning of playing my 4e paladin that cha builds were superior (before DP came out), but I could not force myself to do it. Charisma should be good mostly outside of combat, and perhaps useful to taunt during combat. But not to attack. I'm so glad melee attack stats are now strength or dex, period. Good fighters need to be strong or dextrous, and a paladin should be strong for sure. </blockquote>

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