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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Madmage" data-source="post: 6113585" data-attributes="member: 6693380">Yet the player would have made the choice whether to act in accordance with the Paladin code in the first place. If the character chooses not to desire atonement, then more power to them. They made their peace with it and won't regain their powers. I fail to see the design issue vs the removal of player's choice. If you want to argue that the 2 options aren't equal... well they aren't by a mechanical perspective but if the player is in the position in the first place means they either made a choice based on acting against their moral code > benefits or their moral code = silly. So... what's the problem? So... you want an explanation of why torture is evil? Why can't both be right? Doesn't mean the argument will necessarily devolve into a fight but it can be a conflict of discourse or political maneuvering to prove the supremacy of one's beliefs. Taking the above example, the feudal contract might not be evil, but it could be seen as not Good (i.e. neutral) by the paladin promoting institutions based on the people electing their own legitimate authority rather than basing it on landed gentry. While the beliefs of the other paladin would point out that the feudal contract places a priority on the lord to protect the vassal that the democratic system lacks. Both are supporting cases of legitimate authority for the better health of a community. I'd just add that in the case of the knight or Samurai, usually the consequence is a social one rather than a divine or source of power. Of course, certain games dealing with these types of classes (L5R comes to mind) had mechanics based on status and honour. Characters would be hindered by acting outside of bushido. And in much the same way, the samurai had to redress himself through either ritual suicide (atoning) or becoming a ronin (not atoning).</blockquote>

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