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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 6113629">But there is no reason there needs to be a "moral quandary class".  You don't really gain anything as a paladin for acting in a righteous way, you just don't lose anything.  There's a stick but no carrot.  Moral quandaries can be addressed by any character, of any alignment, they just simply need to be set up in a manner to make players think about their actions.  Setting up a lose-lose situation for Paladins because you want to be a dick and force the paladin to fail is where most "moral quandries" go and why they're so obnoxious.Clearly not only the player felt lying was unacceptable, but the DM did as well.  This is exactly the sort of gotcha game I have no desire to repeat.Exactly, under the alignment restriction system there really isn't any room for moral quandaries.  Players will do whatever lets them keep their cool powers, retreating to "lawful stupid" up until the point that the DM presents them with an impossible situation where everyone in the party walks away unscathed, even if they're lawful good, but the Paladin loses all his class features until they find a high level cleric to atone with.  I HATE the idea that everything can be fixed by a high-level cleric.  Hell even a high-level cleric who is LG, following a LG deity, heck, the SAME deity as the paladin gets out of the same moral issue completely unscathed.DON'T.  YOU.  DARE.  Throw that kind of crap at me.  I've played a paladin in nearly every game I've played, I'm a political scientist.  Problems routinely come from the DM playing "gotcha" with the Paladin, and seeking not to challenge the Paladin's morals, but the PLAYERS.  Classes should not allow DMs to assault your personal morality by presenting impossible situations that do nothing by slap people across the face for trying.  LG alignment restrictions slide towards a conception of universal "lawful goodness", thus making players with a different idea of what "LG" means have to challenge the DM, who is using his personal moral code to determine alignment.  I don't play D&D to argue morality with my friends.You know what happens when players get tired of this?  They roll a Favored Soul or a Cleric and tell the DM to shove it.  There are a dozen different "holy" classes whose powers reasonably should be tied to how well they hold to the commands of their god/religion, but only ONE class loses everything for it.</blockquote>

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