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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 6114821">I think it's different when the DM has to monitor Joe's every action because any little slip could cost him is powers, as opposed to monitoring Bob's actions because it could piss off the locals.  I think any feature of a class should be clear enough to warrant minimal explanation.  Any aspect of a class or race or background that will require significant effort on the part of the DM to explain how it works in his particular game in this particular setting and so on and so forth is a feature that needs to be reconsidered.  The discussion of the Paladin code of conduct should be a simple and straight-forward discussion, but not so concrete as to be immutable.  There will be times when the player's understanding of the code and the DMs understanding of the code will differ not based on in-game concepts...but upon personal morality.  Those are times that both sides need to be able to look to the rules as a neutral third party and come to an agreeable conclusion.This is one reason I advocate deity-based codes, because "don't lie" is a terrible rule that leads to paladins who can't adventure properly with regular adventurers, but "don't lie except to protect the innocent and defeat evil." is a much clearer ruing that allows paladins to have some realistici breathing room.  No LG patron of a LG paladin is going to approve of the paladin refusing to lie to the evil demon bent on killing the farmers when the demon asks him "where are the farmers!?"  I would expect the paladin to reasonably be able to say "I'll never tell!  You must kill me first!" and not get backhanded for not saying "over in the barn."Both sides need to be clear with their DM about how they are going to play.  Too often DMs change their mind and claim "I'm the DM, deal with it!" and players become sneaky so that their op build will be accepted before the DM can say otherwise...which then leads to DMs having to become more aggressive in the face of unethical players.I have always wondered why clerics were never similarly limited, require a diety(any alignment), must adhere to that god's portfolio/alignment.  Clerics get insane power....but have few limitations, I don't want that repeated.</blockquote>

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