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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elf Witch" data-source="post: 6115449" data-attributes="member: 9037">I tell you what why don't we make all games where there is a referee give the players all the power to say no ref I was not out of bounds. . Somebody has to have the final say on the rules and how the game world works. That should be the DM he is the referee.   I am not saying he should be a tyrant but there are times a decision needs to be made and in my experience players are not the most objective when it comes to their character especially if they might be losing something. I know for myself as a player I way more protective of my character than I am as DM of my NPCs. First of all I don't expect most people I play with to go into it with the mindset of not playing the paladin in line with the code they help develop. But I have seen as the game progresses players may start to change in reaction to the game. When that happens the DM needs to address the situation with the player. I have found that 99% of the time when this happens the players knows it is happening and is making a decision to play like this. And most willing accept the consequences that come with it. Some like the idea of having to atone others want to go blackguard. Some just change gods.The only time I have seen it be a major issue is with a player who wanted all the goodies of playing a lawful good paladin of Pelor but also being allowed to lie, cheat, steal, rape and refuse to save innocents because they could not pay gold.  There is no way Pelor would let someone like this get powers from him. With players like this you either have to boot them out of the game by first choice or be able to say look it in the rules. Players like the abuse the rules and suck the fun out of the game for everyone. I also kind of resent the implication of your post that DMs who use the rule or house rule ones that can take away a players character power somehow don't take into regard the players desire on how to play their character. I have never played with a good DM who just looked for every chance to strip powers. are there bad DMs out there well yes just like there are bad players. As a DM I always work with my players to make their characters choices matter but sometimes I have to say no to some. Sorry in my game you can't buy and sell slaves and be a paladin of the god of freedom.</blockquote>

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