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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6119747" data-attributes="member: 95493">I know that wading in here is a terrible idea but I just had to add a couple things..Why is no one addressing the comparisons to Druids (who can't use metal armor) and Clerics (who lose their spellcasting or otherwise need to stay strict to their god's tenants)?As far as the "it is easier to [add/remove] something than to [opposite] it," this is FALSE. It needs to die in a fire of over-simplicity. Sometimes it is easier to add things, other times it is easier to remove them.In this case, it would be harder to add in these little bits of background/roleplay elements like paladins can fall and how they do so. It may also be hard to extract a class without it (not true to my experience but I can understand the problem of expectations.)Flip this around and it feels like a houserule where the DM is enforcing behaviour unfairly, similar to all the problems I see to fix casters. Now if it is the core/standard rule then people can fight it but the DM can also point to the book. In this model if people want an easier time with the class, to ignore those restrictions, the only thing that stops them is a conversation with the DM (instead of having to add in a stricter system).Imagine trying to add in surges in a non-surges system? Same deal, it is a restriction that MANY see a huge benefit and balancing factor but it seems overly harsh if you are adding it in.I think the real solution needs to be a hybrid of both (keep it in and exclude it). I would like to see it mentioned in the class, that they can fall and lose their powers, then I would like to see in a sidebar (similar to 3.5's domain clerics or specialty wizards) how that happens. The mechanics of how they fall/atone need to be good, simple and clear so that those of us who do use them can do so simply, and those that don't want them can just ignore that section/sidebar in the book.</blockquote>

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