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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6119991" data-attributes="member: 42582">I agree with Obryn here. It's not about trusting the GM - I GM much more than I play, especially these days. For me, it's about trusting my players. Why am I a better author of their characters' ideals than they are themselves?Or to come at it differently - I don't see that the player of the paladin has a conflict of interest in adjudging his/her alignment, unless you're playing a "paladin's code is an actual disadvantage in play" game of the sort that [MENTION=6688858]Libramarian[/MENTION] has described upthread. But that's not the only mode of D&D play, and I'm not sure it's even been the default since sometime in the early-to-mid 80s.The difference is, surely, that what counts as "breaking your oath" or "transgressing your code" is more frequently and more hotly contested. There's a whole intellectual field, moral and political philosophy, devoted to ascertaining what counts as breaking oaths and transgressing codes. And as a professional participant in that field, I can tell you that agreement is not widespread and the contests is hot. To the best of my knowledge there is no comparable field devoted to what counts as stepping off the bridge (that's at best a fairly uninteresting example in the metaphysics of vagueness).For me, this captures my response perfectly.Again, I can understand Libramarian's gamist approach. But I don't feel the pull of the GM-control model outside that gamist approach to play.I agree with Hussar. Where are all these players of orphanage-burning, shop-keeper killing paladins? And do we have any data that shows how successful alignment mechanics are at curing them of their problems?We're talking about a player who chooses to play a paladin, and then (in the example given) burns down an orphanage! Why would I waste my time playing with that person? What are they adding to my game? And what would make me think that enforced mechanical aligment is going to beat them into being a good player?</blockquote>

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