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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 6120144" data-attributes="member: 6674889">It should be based on what a reasonable person would think would constitute lawful or good. Lawful is much more problematic than good/evil, especially in morally complex situations regarding loyalty, potentially (i.e. likely, given they're modelled on feudal) unjust legal systems, a good king who's turning tyrannical in his old age, etc. We don't need to get into super deep questions of philosophy about what's good or not, if you can argue your point to the DM that your motivations were good / lawful, based on your understanding of them, that should totally mitigate the alignment penalty (given your DM not being a dick). If anything, complex moral quandaries could be intermediated by a higher-up in-game in the church, and I really don't see why the paladin should be left all alone to navigate these waters with no sunstone to set him right. It just beggars belief that he wouldn't understand or be made to, that his next action of a certain nature would put him out of "alignment" with his religious teachings.It's really not a DM fiat thing, most of the other PCs often chime in and see failings in the paladin's in-game behavior, and also the player's failings for not actually role-playing him well. The game is a role-playing game, there should be rewards and penalties for playing it well. That's about as uncontroversial a thing as can be in a game where you can die merely from a dice roll, let alone from explicitly doing something stupid that angers the gods / DM's interpretation of those gods. And yes, DMs create the world, I really don't see how it's in any way controversial that they'd be puppet masters holding the strings to the godly powers they allocate based on guidelines. It's the grey areas that make the game interesting and not a videogame. But even in a greyscale image, you can still go from darkest to brightest, and there has to be a cutoff point. That point, is the DM's prerogative, IMO. If it's the player's, that creates a conflict of interest because they will always vote/argue/finagle a way to keep their powers, rather than lose them. That's just common sense.</blockquote>

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