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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 6122519">As an aside, it might also be easier to give DMs some sort of guideline on the seriousness of a violation.  Lying might not mean immediate revocation of paladin powers, but perhaps a reduction in effectiveness, basically the power beginning to wane as the character strays from their Code.  More serious violations requiring the Paladin to undergo a "trial" at their nearest church, their powers stricken until they explain their actions and appropriately repent.  For the extreme violations the paladin would get a literal godly backhand and be banned from further paladin levels(at least to that god or alignment of gods).  -Include tests of faith, specific actions that can be performed, from saving a kitten to digging ditches.  Punish a character's violation of their code in a manner befitting the violation.--If they lie, make them do confession.--if they steal, make them do charity work.--if they kill, make them help save life.--if the violation is so severe as to warrant it, present them with a specific test, such as recovering a mystical artifact, that if accomplished, would restore them.DONT:--give players specific spells to cast.  If a 17th-level cleric(or whatever the case requires) is available, it's stupid easy to afford, especially if one is in your party.--be black and white about things.  Not every violation should translate into immediate power loss.  Paladins and their players should know when their gods are upset at them before their powers are completely taken away, and Paladins should generally know what's going to get them the stink-eye, and what's going to get them the backhand before they do it.The key to rules is not simply knowing how to follow them.  But how to adapt them, understand them, interpret them, and if necessary, bend them to the situation.  Following rules without understanding the rules IMO, is not the point of the paladin, and creates nothing more than "lawful stupid".We need to clearly delineate to both DMs and players that there are ranges of slipups, and we need to make clear the difference between your god giving you the stink-eye, and your god striking your powers from you in a brazen display of disappointment.The problem with leaving the DM, or anyone to be arbiter, is that there's no clear statement on how they should rule, only that they should, and their options are "total punishment" or "slap on the wrist".  We need to open up that range of options, and "find a 17th level cleric" isn't an option, it's a statement that the cleric class is superior to yours.</blockquote>

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